God vs. Satan - if God is all-powerful, why does He not just kill Satan?

The Bible do's not define God. No book on Earth do's. There isn't any Satan and there isn't any sin. Satan is man's fall guy.

 

Yup. As the bible says, "these things are an allegory", a metaphor, and symbolic. The carnal mind takes it as fact.

In Genesis, the "serpent" is a metaphor for human mind. Even as we see on this forum, the mind can twist and turn, even turning back on itself and then slither off, like a snake.

 

Its your personal opinion that a 'perfect' God would not grant free will to His creation. I disagree.

 

The claim was the God was bringing Satan to repentance, to which I said "not according to the Bible". It is true, the Bible makes no such claim.

 

It's not my opinion. It's a logical impossibility. You disagree, and I covered that in my post too.

Let me just add that it's a logical impossibility for a "perfect God" who created all that is, to create imperfection. How would he do it? -perfectly? He could not impart the capacity for imperfection (doing evil) because imperfection would be contrary to his reality and being. He would know evil would be done if evil is possible, but he couldn't even KNOW about it if his being was one of purity and perfection.

You are saying he knew what evil is, he knew it would be done, and he created that capacity intentionally. And you can't see all the conflict and violation that has with my list?

 

Your logic fails you. Lucifer was created perfect, as was Adam. God gave them free will, and later they made bad chaises. It is your personal opinion, not logic, which concludes this means God is not perfect.

He could have created mindless minions (immortal) who are capable of nothing else but worshiping God, or he could have created nothing at all. He chose to create creatures who could choose Him out of their own free will, or reject Him. Giving people that choice is love.

 

Then explain exactly how perfection and purity are both expressed in the making of bad choices. Did they represent error? Or was it a wish to do wrong? Were such choices intentional or mistaken? Or what?

 

I just explained it. You edited it out of the quote.

 

A statement of "He chose to create creatures who could choose Him out of their own free will, or reject Him. Giving people that choice is love" doesn't explain how PERFECTION and PURITY are expressed in Lucifer's bad choices. Try again if you can.

 

I didn't say they were. I am cool with your disagreement. I believe what I believe based on what I already explained, and you believe God is not "perfect" because He created something with free will.

If evil did not exist, people would also not be able to choose between coming to God out of our own free will, or reject Him.

 

Well, that is what I asked and to which you were presumably replying.

I didn't expect you would try to explain it, because I know it cannot be explained with validity other than to conclude the Christian God doesn't exist at all because of all the impossible contradictions.

NO CHRISTIAN can successfully explain the contradictions I raised which I got straight from the bible. They all end up exactly where you did, saying essentially "believe what you choose and so will I". IOW they refuse to confront their own contradictions.

Thanks for your honesty.

 

I don't know why you expected me to offer another explanation, when I believe in the one I already told you. I am not trying to persuade you into agreeing with me. I do not see those things as contradictions, but you do based on your definition of "perfect".

 

I asked you a different question than the one you pretended I asked. You answered one I didn't ask. If you don't want to answer it I understand quite well why.

NO CHRISTIAN can successfully explain the contradictions I raised which I got straight from the bible. They all end up exactly where you did, saying essentially "believe what you choose and so will I". IOW they refuse to confront their own contradictions.

Thanks for your honesty.

 

Ok. I don't even know what you are talking about at this point, which is fine.

 

Of course!

 

Guys... I think the concept that we were thought as child's in all the Abraham-ic religions was not true, I being a Christian myself was not convinced about this God Vs Satan theory even while I was a child, I was not even convinced of a Personified God...
In my humble opinion after reading a lot of Far eastern religions, I think that God is not a person, he created everything and everything is a part of him, and everything that he created is infinity.
There is the Yin and Yang within God... There is no right or wrong no good and evil, it is pure perfection, the creation as it is is perfect, but we are not ....
There is a force that created everything, it did it for a reason or even for no reason, but remember this, all religions Buddhism Hinduism talks about Yoga and unity with God... Jesus said be perfect as the Father in Heaven is Perfect, he didnt condemn the bad, he said do not resist evil, because everything happens for a reason....

The search for the truth is a long road and it cannot happen while turning a blind eye on other philosophies, unfortunately the religious leaders of all Abrahamic teachings resisted the truth and hide it ...

I say we humans are a part of God and Creation therefore we are infinite ourselves for some reason we dont know it, we are shut down....we need to wake up and see the light that shines in everything in this creation...

 

In which verse did Jesus say "do not resist evil, because everything happens for a reason"

He did say this "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." but that means an entirely different thing than what you imply.

 

This - along with much of the stuff you will find on the link you are quoting from - is mindless irrational gibberish coupled with logical fallacy .

"We know that God will one day defeat Satan" - No we don't ?!
" We know certain things about His (God's) nature" No we don't ?!

Even if we were to give the Bible some credence. Which part do we give credence too ?

The God of Moses is a xenophobic, genocidal, flip flopping God with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics - a God who makes a law that states "Children should not be punished for the sins of their parents" and then turns around and orders the killing of children and babies for the sins of their parents .

Then we have the God of Jesus - who promotes turning the other check, forgiveness, love neighbor as self, Judge not, Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone .. and so on.

In the first case God is acting like Satan - in the second - not so much.

Revelations was not readily accepted into cannon. Eusebius stated it was spurious - as did other church fathers. Then there is the problem that while the author may have had some vivid dream - his attribution of this dream to some YHWH God is problematic ... the same as if attributed Nostrodamas prophecies to Nostrodamas.

In Job Satan is depicted as one of God's sons - a son who does not act outside the dictates of God - a son who carries out God's will.

The commentary given in the link is nonsensical gibberish on so many levels.

 

Are you lying for God?

 

No. You?

 

The written from the Christian perspective, and Christians believe what the Bible says. They know God will defeat Satan, because the Bible says so. If you do not believe what the Bible teaches, then why bother replying at all?

 

Did you miss the "which part do we give credence to" part ? When you say "The Bible" - a whole lot of Christians do not believe all of the Bible... that the flood as depicted in the Bible actually happened for example.

Not all Christians - in fact most - are not literalist's, inerrantists and so on. Then there is the problem of interpretation. Even those who are literalist's have differing interpretations.

So 1) NO - most Christians do not believe everything the Bible says
2) Even with those who do believe everything - there is the interpretation problem

Then there is the problem that the Bible has been changed over the years - and this is a demonstrable fact - a fact that no serious Biblical scholar disagrees with.

Since this is the case - if one wants to claim "I believe every word in the Bible is literally true" .. the question is "Which Bible" ?

 

Your claim was that we do not know that God will defeat Satan.

No, there are NOT many Christians who would agree with you. Practically all Christians believe God will defeat Satan.

 

My claim is a statement of Fact - regardless of whether or not some Christian agrees.

I disagree that most Christians would claim that they know for a fact "the nature of God". While they might claim that this is what they personally believe ... the claim that they know this for a fact is a whole different claim.

The fact of the matter is that You, nor I, has any clue what the nature of God is with any certainty. You have absolutely no clue whether or not God even wants to defeat Satan or even what this means in a God context .. and neither do I.

What does defeating Satan even mean ? If Satan does exist - and God is the all knowing, omniscient eternal creator - Satan is then an emanation of the Godhead. Why would God destroy a part of himself ? - a fundamental emanation out of the Godhead ? '

The term "defeat" is even more nonsensical in this context. Erase would be a better term. God made something and then decides to get rid of / erase that something.

The term defeat entails the idea that there are two opposing sides and that one wins out over the other. It assumes that either side has at least some chance of success. If God is has one trillionth of the power and control attributed to him ... the other side has no legitimate chance of success. What is to battle ? What is God battling against ?

The idea that God is engaged in some battle with Satan - or a Satanic force - .. one in which God does not have complete control ... is a complete anathema to the Christian idea of God.

Question - Do you believe that God is "out of control" - does not have the ability to control every aspect of the game ?

Whether or not God uses this ability at all times is a separate question (the question of free will).

If you do believe that God has the ability to completely control every aspect of the game .. the idea that there is some legitimate battle between God and Satan such that God will "defeat" Satan - is an irrational anathema to the initial premise. This is equivalent to saying "God is defeating himself" .. That God is defeating an emanation that was both created by, and extends from, himself - kind of like a human smacking himself upside the head.

 

Satan represents the evil to sin and go against God directly related to humans.

Satan fell out of grace from God because of humans and it is he whom we must turn against to embrace God.

For a lack of a better term he is Gods mascot for evil.

Once this ride is over and he is no longer needed he will be destroyed.

He is serving a purpose for God at the moment however.

Sure He could remove him at any time but that would not help our human cause and God would just have to find another way to represent evil or sin if you prefer.

In fact, the only reason God ever allowed Satan to be formed was for this very purpose of going against God in the first place.