Guns and kids

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    32,589
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    http://www.childinjurylaws.com/gun-safety/

    Let the standard myth based responses begin

    "Guns don't kill people - people kill people"

    And with child injury statistics like these, if this were some sort of toy on the market - would you not be calling for the removal of that toy from the market?

    "Gun owners are responsible people"

    Hmmmm - yes the statistics do support that - NOT!

    "It will take away my freedom!"

    No freedom can be fought for without a gun - study world history

    etc etc
     
  2. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yet despite your bs 'statistics' accidental shootings are at a low point in history,
    the NRA offered to provide schools with gun safety material from the eddie eagle program, but the hoplophobes had a fit, calling it 'joe camel with feathers'


    There are MILLIONS of gun owners, and only a few accidents to speak of......that proves as a whole, gun owners ARE responsible......
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    32,589
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Some more statistics
    http://med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm
     
  4. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    12 year old stats?....try again
     
  5. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seperate suicide from all other stats. I'm not worried someone intent on suicide is going to walk into my home or office and try to shoot everyone.

    Next, the sources used in your link are very weak and some are flat out biased. The American Academy of Pediatrics is politically driven and has a history of using its position as a physician sponsored organization to preach its political agenda and to encourage physicians to violate the doctor-patient relationship. The AAP was the motivation for the 2011 citizen driven amendment to the FLorida constitution to prevent pediatricians from asking about firearms in the home.

    Here's some stats for you (from the CDC):

    2007, all ages, accidental deaths due to firearms - 613.
    2007, all ages, deaths related to bicylces - 820
    Accidental drowning - 3,443
    Accidental poisoning - 29,846


    I'm not worried about accidental shooting. I'm worried about the armed criminal. You should focus on the criminals.
     
  6. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Many countries that are "gun control poster children" have higher suicide rates than the US. Not to say that gun control causes suicide, but it certainly does not prevent. The OP brings up a moot point.

    Suicide rates in ages 15-24
    # 1 New Zealand: 26.7 per 100,000 people
    # 2 Finland: 22.8 per 100,000 people
    # 3 Switzerland: 17.9 per 100,000 people
    = 4 Austria: 15 per 100,000 people
    = 4 Canada: 15 per 100,000 people
    # 6 Australia: 14.6 per 100,000 people
    # 7 United States: 13.7 per 100,000 people
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_15_24-suicide-rates-ages-15-24
     
    sunnyside and (deleted member) like this.
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    18,829
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Very old statistics. Here are the latest available from CDC (2009): (CDC WISQARS database http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

    For 2009, for 0-19 (not sure why anybody would consider 18 and 19 yr olds to be children, though),
    2811 firearms deaths.
    114 Unintentional
    800 Suicides
    1855 homicides
    24 undetermined cause
    18 Legal intervention

    86 children under 5
    269 children 5-14
    2456 15-19

    The unintentional firearms deaths of children under 5 was only 16. That meant the other 70 are murders. Unintentional deaths of children 5-14 was only 32. Accidental death of children by guns is almost nothing statistically. Gunowners are, for the most part, very responsible people and are keeping kids away from guns.
     
  8. marshaeg

    marshaeg New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bowerbird? From Whistlestopper? I am Major Baker. Hi!

    I would disagree with your assertion. First of all, 214 accidental deaths from firearms over one year in a nation of 400 million people seems pretty low to me. Especially when compared to other causes of death, cars, drowning, etc.

    Also, I would contend that even in those 214 cases, it was people (not guns)causing these deaths, either by improper storage or handling of firearms, or by improper instruction on the danger of firearms to kids who do not know about them.
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    25,824
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The evidence does find that gun control leads to a statistically significant reduction in suicide.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    32,589
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is about HOW people go about it. Take a handful of pills and I can probably save you shoot yourself in the head and it is all over red rover
     
  11. Chariot

    Chariot Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is a blatant lie.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    32,589
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi Old darlin'!

    Yes I cannot deny that people did play a part in the deaths but those were regrettably preventable deaths - the stats for injury of kids is way way way worse. And you are correct - it is about firearm SAFETY but so many argue that locking the firearm away refutes the main aim - which is to have it accessible in case of need
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    32,589
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You should be worried about accidents and especially involving children - those bike statistics are horrible - don't you mandate bike helmets? Now not to call you a liar but I cannot get a match on those figures with google
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    25,824
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You're clearly rather innocent of the evidence. See, for example, Leenaars (2007, Gun-Control Legislation and the Impact on Suicide Crisis: The Journal of Crisis Intervention and Suicide Prevention, Vol 28, pp 50-57):

    Gun control is the prototypical example of controlling the environment for the means of suicide, an effective public health approach to suicide prevention. Canada’s Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1977 (Bill C-51) provides an excellent opportunity to illustrate the effects of legislative gun-control laws and the impact on suicide. The research in Canada supports the significant effect of C-51 in reducing suicides and firearm suicides, even if one controls for socioeconomic factors, although not equally for all ages. The young, a high-risk group, show the most significant decrease, without significant substitution of other methods (displacement). Studies on guncontrol laws from New Zealand, the United States, and Australia support the Canadian findings. It is concluded that, although not equally applicable in all countries, gun control may well have significant applications in reducing suicide worldwide.
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    32,589
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Add in this point

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-08-30/howards-gun-buyback-slashed-firearm-suicides/962424
     
  16. marbro

    marbro New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I teach children as I was tought on gun safety. Americans will not give up their guns.

    If you want to reduce gun violence a good first place to start is ending the war on drugs.
     
  17. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    207
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Which is completely irrelevant in light of those statistics.

    Guns are not why people harm themselves, why not address the why instead of the how?
     
  18. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bike helmets are required for children in most states (maybe all states). With over 300 million people, 820 bicycle related deaths isn't that large.

    The world is not perfectly safe, no matter what laws are put in place. In fact I think there are too many laws trying to make the world perfectly safe for children. Playgrounds have become so boring its no wonder kids would rather sit in front of the tv.

    You can go here for the stats, the National Rifle Association has compiled the data in an Excel spreadsheet for easy analysis.

    http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=127

    Or if you don't like the NRA, go to the CDC WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, it takes a little more work and the numbers for some categories are not broken down as nicely as the NRA tables but its a neat site

    http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
     
  19. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It kills me to say it but Reiver is correct (this time). A lot of people see a firearm as a quick sure way of suicide and it makes suicide more of an option. Knives, pills, driving a car into tree, etc are uncertain to succeed, can be painful and slow, and the attempt may fail with troubling results (brain damage, paralysis, etc). Removing firearms raises the bar a bit, and it delays some of the impulsive suicides which gives these people time to calm down and perhaps decide not to kill themselves. People absolutely committed to suicide will do it no matter what means are available, but not all people that consider suicide are at that stage.
     
  20. Danct

    Danct New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0



    Perhaps if the NRA could have shown that this program is actually effective they would have had better luck with that. Unfortunately, they could not, so save your crocodile tears.
     

Share This Page