Have you ever denounced or changed your religious affiliation? If so, why?

But I have a good god and not a genocidal prick of a god and that makes me more civil than you, stupid.

I win, you lose on morals.

Regards
DL

 

Eh, I do not "believe" in fairy tale characters.

Gnostic Christians have always named Yahweh a demiurge.

Only supernatural believing fools will believe the Christian myth to be talking of reality.

The same applies to our myths, which is why I mostly ignore them and go to logos instead of mythos.

Regards
DL

 

So the God of the Bible is not supernatural?

LOL - That's quite a claim. Why didn't the Bible put Him away?

 

You called him stupid - that makes you less civil.

You lose...

 

The darker the world, the brighter the truth.

 

Not if you read the myth correctly.

If supernatural is involved, we end with the problem of evil.

If the natural is involved, there is no problem of evil.

That is why Christianity is so screwed up. Christians read the bible with mythos instead of logos.

That is why they have a problem of evil and have forgotten why they sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

That is how poor their apologists are these days.

Regards
DL

 

That does not explain your piss poor morals and supernatural/stupid thinking.

Regards
DL

 

The truth is the truth regardless of what label you put on me.

What labels do you put on religious homophobes and misogynous a holes?

Regards
DL

 

I have met many Christians who don't see God as genocidal, don't see the bible stories as literal, etc. Some of them even agree with me when I tell them bible God as written is a monster.

They would tell you the bible is a product of it's time, had some progressive thoughts for it's time, and was inspired but in no way dictated by God. They would say that in their view the Bible is more of a symbol and historic relic of moral progression than a how to book.

To be a "Christian" they would tell you all you need to do is "follow Jesus", a hippy who preached peace and love for your fellow human beings. And they would contrast hippy Jesus to warlord Mohammed, etc.

Other than having no reason to think any of it is true, I do not see these sorts of "Christians" as inherently immoral.

Peace and love maaaan

 

It means that God is our immortal and divine heavenly Father with whom we used to dwell and know. But our birth of flesh and blood into mortality has overshadowed or eclipsed our remembrance of him. All that remains of our former relationship with him is a slim conscience which tells us right or wrong incrementally like the mcgoos we have become in mortality. Anyway this is why Jesus taught that we must repent and be born again, this time of water and spirit, or baptism and the gift of the holy ghost, to see and/or to enter heaven. That we actually know or knew God previously is the only way to know, remember, or recognize him again.

 

LOL Touche.

 

Yet you make no repentance of your own sins nor praise of salvation via Jesus sacrifice. Therefore there is no redemption for you because you have damned and removed Gods plan, thus your own soul....if you persist in this evil childs play of yours. In LDS scripture, Eve proclaims, "were it not for my iniquity, I could not know the joy of my redemption."

 

I would feel morally wrong to praise "salvation" via the torture and death of an innocent man, volunteer or not, demigod or not.

If people walked around wearing little guillotines or electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses, I think we could all see the problem.

If your Christianity is one of blood sacrifice of an innocent man so you get whatever it is you seek (forgiveness, salvation, to be with God, whatever)... That is highly disturbing to me.

I don't see why people consider the Aztecs sacrificing people to volcanos as somehow more evil than the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

I don't see why an all powerful creator God would set things up requiring pain and death for "salvation" if be wants to grant it.

And I don't see why a moral person would follow much less worship such a tyrranical sort of God.

Hippy Jesus is one thing, and actually pretty inspiring. But the symbology built around the Christ is quite another, far more disturbing concept.

 

By the way, I like your God, Injeun...



"Genocidal prick"?

I don't think so....

 

"Innocent man"?

Perhaps, that's why you don't get where Injeun is coming from, Jolly.

What makes you think there was anything "innocent" about what Jesus was doing?

What makes you think Jesus didn't know exactly what he was doing?

What makes you think he didn't know exactly why he would allow himself to be brutalized and murdered in the most cruel, inhuman and degrading manner?

It's not God and the symbology built around Christ that is the Horror Show here - it is us. Our hatred, our cruelty, our viciousness - all the evil that compels us to cast away our humanity and brutalize one another, and in the process brutalize ourselves.

I get the revulsion. The cross is a mirror, and we shouldn't like what we see in it, but there it is, and there it will always remain as a reminder of who we are and what we might be.

Hippy Jesus is cool - I have no problem with him, and you're right - the whole Lamb of God thing is quite another. That kind of love - and the strength - is far more inspiring to me.

 

Nope.

If the Bible told us to put away the supernatural it wouldn't have picked it up in the first place.

Elementary logic, my good man...

 

Your conduct speaks for itself. Labels are superfluous..

Haters, bigots, religious homophobes and misogynous a holes...

 

None of us are perfect. So we are all subject to the breaking of the eternal laws of sin and death by our choices in life. Jesus fulfilled those requirements with an unblemished offering and the conquering of death. So the demands of eternal law are answered and met in him. If we would be saved and lifted from the grasp of sin and death, we have only one means. And that is thru the acceptance of his sacrifice. But it is all a matter of our choice.

 

Perhaps.

If the idea is the trinity, then he not only allowed it but required it in order to forgive people of their sins. He cant just forgive, and needs suffering and torture in order to forgive? Why? And why would you be ok with that?

Any way you spin the Christ idea, it is a blood sacrifice of somebody who is not you in order for you to gain something (forgiveness, connection to God, whatever).

Well from my point of view that is correct because we as humans created these God concepts, and creater them as tyrants who demand blood sacrifice. That does indeed say something pretty awful about us.

Hippy Jesus is the one part of Christianity that I think we can and should salvage as the religion collapses as time goes forward. It certainly beats Islam, based around a violent warlord.

 

Agreed.

Why don't you question that violent bloodthirsty set up?

Why do you think that is morally acceptable? Why won't you take responsibility for you own wrongdoing instead of looking to another such as Jesus? And why does his suffering and death in any way make up for whatever wrong you did?

These are fundamental questions I rarely seen answered, other than by an appeal to authoritarianism. It's just because God says so?

Why is it the suffering and short term death of a third party other than yourself that gains you your salvation, instead of something like good deeds and trying to be a good person?

Does Ghandi, a non-christian, go hell, and Hitler, if he repented on his death bed, go to heaven?

 

I'm sure there are many answers to those questions, but if we're talking about the trinity then its God's own life to give, and he gave it in order to communicate to his horrible little children how far he is willing to go to forgive us, no matter how badly we behave. In the process, he's also holding up the paragon of love and strength in Christ as an example to inspire and follow. I'm not ok that God would have to go to such extremes but that's a reflection on us, not God.

God doesn't care. It's his gift to us, given willingly out of the infinite goodness of his heart.

I don't know about a tyrant demanding a blood sacrifice, but you certainly make a valid point about us. I also think Jesus was trying to disabuse us of the notion that God is some monster who would create imperfect little monkeys like us and then damn us for our imperfections. I think a large part of the point of Jesus' message is God's understanding and forgiveness of our imperfections, no matter how awful they can be.

LOL

Hippy Jesus is great because he's harmless, but he doesn't have the love, commitment, courage and strength of the Lamb of God.

 

I don’t aspire to go to heaven or hell. If there is an omniscient God, I just want him to send me back in time, knowing what I know now, so I can correct my mistakes and right my wrongs.

That’s all I want.

 

And you don't find this gift being in the form of a blood sacrifice to himself to be the least bit disturbing?

If he wants to love and forgive people of their wrongdoing, why not just do so? Why the need for blood and torture, etc?

 

The dating is incorrect. The flood occurred about 4,500 years ago. You say the list goes back to 4,700 years. Very close so, the flood or the first king is off by a 100 years or so. Splitting hairs. The first king came after the flood. Probably 100 - 150 years or so years after the ark landed.

 

What are you talking about? It's the lineage of Judeo-Christian Bible that is the proof of Adam. You still didn't answer my question. Prove the Samarians came before Adam...