Herd immunity by April?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Bluesguy, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll throw in a bridge.
     
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  2. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think FDA just approved Johnson & Johnson.

    Personally, I'm passing on them all.
     
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  3. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    If they are all like you by midterms the number of trump voters should be down by 1/2 a percent.
     
  4. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    What I'm telling you is the number of deaths attributed to Covid19 will be higher than reported by Worldometers and Johns Hopkins.

    Agree or disagree?

    By the way, the number of deaths attributed to Covid19 is already higher than reported by Worldometers and Johns Hopkings, for example; Cuomo's near 5,000 unreported Covid19 Nursing Home deaths.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  5. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am healthy! Never had a cold in the last 20 years or so; never a flue shot in my whole life, but... I am over 80 and "vulnerable", therefore the privilege of being among the first to get vaccinated.
    Thank you kindly for your advice - I will wait.
     
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  6. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Do yourself a favor and ask your doctor.
     
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  7. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    ONCE AGAIN, by the end of June, at least 7 State's DOH will finalize their 2020 death counts, AND CDC's 2020 death counts will remain provisional for at least 12 months.

    Last, I'm not a retarded conspiracy theorist, therefore, I will fully endorse said State's DOH final death counts.
     
  8. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you!!!
    Here in Ontario we have Pfizer. But, as I am just reading...
    in 2006 the company J&J acquired Pfizer PFE Consumer Healthcare, bringing its history full circle as Joseph Lister’s Listerine product comes under Johnson & Johnson’s umbrella.

    So, they all are in bed with each other!
     
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  9. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Cuba has one. Think Indonesia does as well. They FDA isn't gonna approve a third world brown people vaccine when there is a lily white wall street company trying to compete.
     
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  10. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Curious; What percentage of your population has been vaccinated?

    Ontario population; 14.7 million

    If 1/2 a million, then 3.4%
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  11. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, only 99.97% of the global population survived Covid over the last year without any vaccines.

    Pretty sure that most people (Republicans and Democrats, too!) who prefer terrain health theory to germ health theory will survive until the midterms (unless they're over 85 and very frail or have endured years of chronic later stage health conditions already....then they may die from their ill health, positive Covid or not). Just like 2020!
     
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  12. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very likely, since they've been counting all sorts of deaths "with" Covid as "Covid deaths".

    I'm waiting for the total mortality numbers to come out, to compare to the last few years. That will be the only real number that matters in excess deaths. It is likely to be tragic....how many suicides and deaths from treatable/managable diseases the government allowed to die, and called them "Covid".
     
  13. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Donor

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    ~ I have seen those real estate ads ... :no:
     
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  14. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    According to Michigan's ''provisional monthly death counts, and causes of deaths, their 2020 Heart Disease, Cancer, COPD, and Stroke death counts aren't abnormal, thus, 2019 + an annual 2% growth. In other words, no significant reduction due to Covid19.

    https://www.mdch.state.mi.us/osr/Provisional/MontlyDxCounts.asp

    However, what will be abnormal;

    Suicide
    Other mental/depression related deaths
    Drug related deaths/opioid
    Alcohol related deaths
    Homicide
    Malnutrition related deaths
    Died of other disease/illness due to a weak immune system
    Number of people who died in their own homes will be up significantly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  15. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.
     
  16. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She was the one, among others, to tell me the good news. Upon my hesitance, she said it was o.k. not to take it... it was up to me.
    So there!
     
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  17. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have no idea. Sorry.
     
  18. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Hokay.

    Stay safe.
     
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  19. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Donor

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    The excess above the excess of "deaths by all causes" is consistently being seen in all states, and has to do with a number of factors:

    1) The fact that the pandemic has caused "collateral damage" as well, especially due to conditions that got neglected because people were afraid of going to a crowded hospital or clinic to be seen for those conditions. There's been millions of cancellations of needed care because patients were saying "I'll postpone this visit until this situation is over." Well, if you don't take good care of your chronic conditions by visiting your doctor, you expose yourself to more risks, including a risk of premature death (meaning, you would have survived longer if you had continued your ongoing care).

    2) Add to this the delayed care for surgical conditions when several states mandated a freeze in scheduled (non-emergency) surgeries in order to conserve resources for the onslaught of Covid-19 cases. Think of a cancer patient who didn't get the tumor extracted in time and it spread.

    3) The loneliness induced by the pandemic also increased alcohol and drug abuse, and suicides. Not only suicides kill people but when you have more alcohol and drug abuse you have more car crashes and deaths by accidental overdoses. Alcohol sales went up significantly during this pandemic.

    4) Just sheer stress due to uncertainty and economic hardship tends to increase cardiovascular events such as MIs and strokes.

    5) With unemployment, many lost their employer-based healthcare coverage therefore took worse care of themselves, again being exposed to premature death.

    6) Apparently there's been an increase in gun sales and domestic violence during the pandemic. Bad combination. May have resulted in some additional deaths.

    7) People exercised less and became more sedentary with gyms closed and teleworking. Sedentarism is an important cause of cardiovascular deaths.

    8 ) Finally, there is another factor that tends to fly under the radar: real deaths caused by Covid-19 that are never counted as such because they are due to (then) poorly understood late consequences. For example, a person has Covid-19 and apparently makes a full recovery, and gets discharged from the hospital. A month later the person drops dead from a massive stroke caused by embolism (a blood clot). We now know that Covid-19 can cause hyper-coagulation states and cause strokes months after "recovery." That dead person will be listed as dying of a stroke, not dying of Covid-19. I previously linked to a paper here showing that a huge percentage of patients (from memory now I don't recall the number, I think it was something like 40% or 50%) get readmitted to a hospital within 5 months of discharge from a Covid-19 unit, officially considered as recovered, but some 12% of these die. We've been now realizing the impact of the SARS-CoV-2 in the heart, even after asymptomatic infection, and even among previously healthy young people. So, persistent myocarditis can go silent and undiagnosed, but then can result in sudden cardiac arrest or heart failure months later. There's been even young and healthy athletes dropping dead of a sudden cardiac arrest after an asymptomatic case of Covid-19. These will also increase the stats of "deaths by all causes" but won't necessarily be recognized as Covid-19 deaths.

    So, contrary to the idea that we hear so often here that Covid-19 deaths are exaggerated, they are actually grossly undercounted if you factor in late complications, and collateral damage. This is clearly demonstrated by the "excess deaths" stats that are readily available for consultation at the CDC website and state health department websites. This is irrefutable. It clearly shows that the consequences of this pandemic are actually worse than the official count, and not at all exaggerated.

    ---------

    I'm fully aware of the idea that death certificates were falsified to attribute a death "with" Covid to a death "from" Covid. This is absolutely not happening in any significant numbers. This is just a partisan talking point and a conspiracy theory. We are not falsely filling death certificates with wrong information. That would be fraud, and for what gain? Doctors aren't paid more for a diagnosis. They are paid for procedures. And the CDC never issued this kind of recommendation like some people have said (even Dr. Birx). The CDC merely revised the criteria for presumed Covid-19 deaths in a manner that actually makes all the sense in the world. I've extensively explained this in many of my previous posts, in more details than I'm providing here; those who want to know can advance-search my posting history for the keywords death certificate and explore especially my first few posts about this topic. It's all there, I explain why this idea is absurd, in all detail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  20. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Donor

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    Change your doctor. A person over the age of 80, being advised by a doctor that it's OK to decline the Covid-19 vaccine? Whoa! Bad advice.

    If she just meant that it's your decision, in the legal sense, indeed it is. But her advice should have been to strongly encourage you to take it.

    If she meant "it's OK to decline" in the sense that you are allowed to decline, that is correct. But if she meant "it's OK to decline" in the sense that you don't really need it, then this is seriously flawed advice.

    Sure, you didn't catch the flu... but the SARS-CoV-2 is way more infectious than the flu, and way more lethal for a person your age. The vaccines are extremely safe (very very rare reactions; they are over-reported by the media but very statistically rare) and very efficacious. There is no good reason for a person older than 80 to decline unless the person has a specific condition that prevents it such as a known strong allergy to a component of the vaccine.

    The correct advice is, take the vaccine (unless you have a condition that contra-indicates it, but it doesn't appear to be the case given that you said you are healthy). If your doctor is not issuing it, you need to seriously consider a change in doctors. No kidding. This is quite irresponsible of her.

    Recently in the news there was a case of a suspended medical license because the physician seemed to be one of those who think that this is just a little flu and was being neglectful in his advice to his patients. The State Medical Board wasn't happy about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  21. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Donor

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    First of all, J&J's acquisition in 2006 was very limited to some items (indeed Listerine was one of them). The real Pfizer merger that happened in 2020 was with GSK (GlaxoSmithKline), which started a consumer healthcare joint venture with Pfizer, retaining 68% of control. Second, this is just a spin-off company, and is not the main Pfizer operation, which remains independent of any other corporation.

    I don't get what's your point here. Is it to imply some sort of collusion? Is it to imply that these vaccines are basically all the same? Pfizer, J&J, and GSK are entirely independent. GSK is not currently offering a Covid-19 vaccine. They withdrew the one they were working on in partnership with the French pharma company Sanofi. They are now trying again, and aiming for a multi-valent coronavirus vaccine that will capture several of the new variants of concern, but this is only expected for 2022. Their vaccine is an adjuvanted recombinant protein-based product which is profoundly different from Pfizer's mRNA vaccine. By the way, the Janssen (the Pharma division of J&J) Covid-19 vaccine is also profoundly different, as it is a DNA non-replicant adenovirus26-vector vaccine.

    So they are all in bed with each other? No, they are competitors. They may have sold or merged some spin-offs and some secondary lines but they retain their core businesses as independent.
     
  22. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Well said!

    Also, the percentage of people who died of Covid19/''would have died of other causes'', is insignificant, meaning; Not the 20, 40, 60, or 80% Trump supporters have been chanting......IMO, less than 5%. In fact, the ACTUAL number of Covid19 deaths may surpass the REPORTED number.

    In addition, I've been wondering why Michigan's 2020 Heart, Cancer, COPD, and stroke death counts are near, and/or higher than their annual growth rates?

    IMO, due to several equalizations, such as;

    Would have died of a stroke VERSUS those who shouldn't have died of a stroke......

    ......we generally had a stressful/depressive year, and feeling stressed often makes people drink alcolhol or smoke more.

    Thus, those who beleive there will be a significant reduction of ''other causes of death'', will be schocked.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  23. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Correction; believe, shocked
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  24. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Donor

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    Haha, I see that like me you hate the brief editing window that leaves typos behind.
    They won't be shocked. They will simply move the goalposts or call it fake news. You can't reason with conspiracy theorists and hyper-partisan types. For them, Covid-19 against all evidence remains a hoax or a little flu and Trump did just fine and all these deaths are fake.
     
  25. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, all conspiracy theorists are not retarded, and actually most all of us display certain characteristics of conspiracy theorists.

    All that separates us is whether we buy into official conspiracy theories or into alternative conspiracy theories.

    In this case, it appears you buy into the theories represented by numbers of cases and deaths offered by bureaucrats and governments and mainstream media.

    I am most skeptical of those numbers, and that has very little to do with CT. Life has taught me to be skeptical of known liars like career bureaucrats and professional propagandists.
     

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