High motor vehicle taxes are to compensate society for terrible disamenities motor vehicle use cause

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Bic_Cherry, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

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    High motor vehicle taxes are to compensate society for terrible disamenities motor vehicle use caused.

    Pedestrians and Personal Mobility Devices (PMD) use pavements to travel but are GREATLY INCONVENIENCED when people build expressways across their path resulting in the need to cross numerous high pedestrian crossing bridges, deviate from original path to use crossings whilst breathing unhealthy motor vehicle fumes etc.

    High COE and ROAD TAXES etc are to COMPENSATE pedestrians and cyclist for all the inconvenience caused by motorised vehicles which not only badly POLLUTE breathing air, but make PMD journeys more hot, sweaty, onerous then they were BEFORE motor vehicles appeared on the roads.

    Fewer roads and parking lots also means more land for parks, footpaths and other social recreation/ exercise/ relaxation use to keep stratospheric health care costs down.
     
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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Several excessively congested cities in China already have motor vehicle taxes in place to try to discourage cars on the road.

    I am thinking some cities could be designed with more areas where cars are not allowed, except trucks with special permits making deliveries to businesses (and maybe these trucks could only be allowed at certain times of the day or week).

    Especially for new cities that are being constructed.

    You are right, the more cars on the road, the more unpleasant it makes it for pedestrians to travel along those roads, making even more people want to travel by car.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  3. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    It will just be a regressive tax unless its earmarked and used, for example, in subsidising public transport.
     
  4. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Good luck with that.

    "Washington state voters have a chance to tell lawmakers in Olympia to stop raising automobile registration fees. The activists at Voters Want More Choices took to the capitol building on Monday to launch Initiative 1421, entitled "Bring back our $30 car tabs" to fight the gradual addition of fees and taxes to the cost of registering a car. The measure would state unambiguously that state and local governments may not charge more than $30 a year to register a car, motorcycle or motor home, thwarting state and local plans to raise fees in July.

    "We've voted for this over and over again," initiative co-sponsor Tim Eyman told TheNewspaper. "But you guys don't seem to listen."

    https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/48/4892.asp
     
  5. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

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    People in USA are a crazy lot with little respect for life and limb... they will vote for military grade weaponry to be sold on supermarket shelves (sorry, i exaggerate) and more cars to pollute the air and cause cancer and coronaries to be blocked in the long run ...

    Maybe Americans are just people with a very myopic field of view... "Lets drink and be merry, cos tomorrow we die"...

    In anycase, depending on geography, motor vehicle taxes will be different since in rural places, tractors, trucks and even cars may be a necessity. But for a city state like Singapore, public transport like bicycles and trains should be the preferred modes of transport to get around town.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You need more than that! Environmental policy that impacts more heavily on the poor is not good enough. There has to be a kick-back elsewhere, otherwise we'd have environmental policy actually intensifying inequalities.
     
  7. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

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    Motor vehicle tax policies do not just hinge on env concerns dear, traffic gridlock causing +/- env damage are to be concerned. There is limit to the number of roads that can be built and subways are much more efficient in transporting people than roads (cars) are within large cities.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Still no reference to equity! Imposition of regressive tax requires more thought sweetpea!
     
  9. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Think about it this way. When you make traffic expensive then only the elite will be able to afford it. You structurally create a reservation then for the elite to use the resources that you have made financially unreachable by the majority of the citizens. Now that seems equitable, right?
     
  10. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

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    Within a city, it is impossible for everybody to drive a car around and even the pollution from motorcycles do add up e.g. Jakarta, Manila, Bangkok , Mumbai etc where traffic is in gridlock.

    The only functions management of transportation within the city is thus public transport (especially subways) , buses and bicycle use (shared/otherwise) or else plain old walking. Even private hire taxi services like UBER, GRAB (SE Asia company) do reduce the number of city parking spaces necessary in lieu of more parks and recreation facilities for public to use.

    By saying "You structurally create a reservation then for the elite to use the resources that you have made financially unreachable by the majority of the citizens.", u are being unrealistic because given the population density in the city, public transport is the only solution to avoid massive pollution or traffic gridlock which can indeed shut down the city/ essential public services like fire and ambulance etc.

    I am sure that when push comes to shove, every poor man would rather the roads be passable to emergency service vehicles so that should he ever need fire or ambulance service, he can be attended to promptly, rather than for everyone to clog up the streets with traffic and subway building plans fail to materialize because nobody agreed to pay road use tax etc.

    Again I repeat, this is in the context of large CITY planning where subways are the established main mode of transport ... as for rural farmlands with nobody in sight, I don't think the authorities bother much if your diesel tractor is Euro 5 emissions standard or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Still regressive! Bit of an issue as cities often have high poverty rates.
     
  12. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in Los Angeles, and right before my birth, during the Golden Age of subway expansion in LA, disaster struck. Drilling crews hit a massive methane pocket, collapsed half a mile of a major thoroughfare, and killed dozens of people.

    Weak politicians responded by banning Federal transportation funds from LA for 25 years, and left the subway system of LA a pathetic joke compared to other major metropolitan areas, yet none the less, it was an incredibly efficient mode of transportation that hit most of the major tourist destinations and employment sectors.

    The only flaw in your line of thinking is a punitive registration or mileage tax. The focus should be on motor hours. Require manufacturers to add that to the odometer, drivers to report their hours to the local authority, and tax accordingly. Hours spent sitting in traffic are penalized, such as the daily commute, without restricting the liberty of travel.

    If you live in poverty, you probably don't own a car, so therefore it's not regressive.
     
  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Two aspects here. First, regressive doesn't refer to poverty (it refers to proportion of income). Second, you're clearly clueless about poverty.
     
  14. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite proud of that fact.
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Which one? Getting it completely wrong over the definition of regressivity?
     
  16. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Being ignorant of poverty.
     
  17. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I was taking the pish dear boy
     
  18. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    I'm not familiar with that saying
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Piss-nehmen?
     
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  20. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Are you British?

    I only speak Washington's true English, none of that gutter trash from those who worship a monarchy
     
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  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    As a republican, I'd go back to Old English. However, every word in Anglo Saxon sounds like a swear word. It would upset one's mother.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  22. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    You are quite witty
     

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