"Higher Education: Europe vs. USA"

Discussion in 'Education' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And destructed how many times ?
     
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Much of the basic infrastructure, roads, bridges, water systems etc. survived or recovered after war. European have been fighting for control of the same cities towns and farmland that the Romans established thousands of years ago. Europeans did not have to build from scratch.

    When Europeans first tried to build a settlement in America they were all gone without a trace in short order. When they tried again at Plymouth almost all of them were dead in less than a month. Read William Bradford's account - good read.
     
  3. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes recovered at high cost. Where I live in Normandy, many cities had to be build back from scratch after 1945. I don't blame the american for that, but it cost a lot.
     
  4. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The destruction was massive, but surface structures can be replaced in short order now. Even West Berlin rose quickly from the ashes. The irreparable damage was to cultural landmarks, artifacts and treasures.
     
  5. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, but you still miss my point : that kind of destruction cost a lot to build back the country.

    Furthermore, another cost is the human cost, when 30 % of the young men dies in a country and more get crippled, it's a huge "cost".
     
  6. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, nothing can completely offset the cost of endless war, but many politicians, crony capitalists and military leaders find it irresistibly attractive.
     
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Labor force participation rate for adults 25/64 years old

    From the National Center for Education Statistics (here):

    All persons 25 to 64 years old (2015) - Employment to Population Ratio*: 73.1%
    -Less than high-school completion: 54.3%
    -High-school completion: 67%
    -Some college, no degree: 73%
    -Associate's degree: 78.3
    -Bachelor's degree or higher: 83.5%
    *Those employed as a percentage of the entire population (adults and children).

    My point?
    -We could do a lot more to enhance high-school completion rates and move people into finishing a post-secondary education necessary for a good job.
    -Otherwise, we will all be paying their unemployment and other social insurances ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  8. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    School is redundant. Looking back at my 12 years of compulsory grade schooling plus my three years at university, I can honestly not point at one single thing and say "this, I learned in school". School was tremendously boring and even the subjects that I liked such as language, geography and social science was made boring by school.

    If a child has an interest, he will explore that interest on his spare time... After school! I used to play online games about geography when I finally got home from school and I used to watch endless hours of English-speaking shows on the telly; all my geography and English was learned outside school. Even in university, I learned more from browsing the net, reading pdf's, forums and watching Youtube than I did at the lectures.

    School is way too expensive and way too long. Children should be given the chance to specialise in a field as early as possible. Forcing everyone to learn "basic everything" will mean no one learns anything; knowing what NaCl is (basic chemistry), how many rabbits there are on Earth (basic biology) or when Marie Antoinette was born (basic history) is utterly useless knowledge that will get you nowhere.

    Today, most jobs require you to have a high school diploma. Since everyone has one, the diploma's value is as inflated it can get. When all comes around, it does not take 12 years to become a receptionist, a hair dresser or anything else, but with today's system of compulsory, 12 year-grade school it does.

    Huuuuuuuge waste of money and time.

    Sorry if the post is a bit scrappy and aggressive. I just had to get this off my chest. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
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  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If ignorance were bliss, you'd be in heaven ...
     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Learning is NEVER a waste of time and money. Since the dawn of time it is in this manner that mankind has evolved/progressed.

    Except in certain "pockets" of civilization that refuse all sorts of advancement, trying to protect their comfortable "status-quo". That status-quo has changed.

    We are coming out of the Industrial Age where manufacturing offered most of the jobs and into the Information Age that is more Services-orientated. As I never tire of repeating: Only 12.7% of the American workforce have jobs in Industry - and that percentage is projected to decline. (Corroborate that data-fact for yourself here at the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Employment by major industry sector)

    Salaries are bound to be lower in the Services Sector, but the Demand for a higher level of skills/competencies is real and therefore a necessity.

    And the further up the educational ladder that one hones their skills the better is remuneration. See here (also from the Bureau of Labor Statistics): Median weekly earnings by educational attainment in 2014
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And here is a footnote regarding the BLS wage data:
    Employment in America is without racial/ethnic prejudice?

    Bollocks!
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Footnote: By means of an advanced degree, men still earn 17% more than women with the same degree-level.

    That could be, however, dependent upon the "type of degree" both sexes seek. For instance, if men seek predominantly an MBA and women a degree in Education, then the reason for the differential is obvious. (Moreover, this is just an example to show how the difference may develop!)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS):
    Unemployment Rate (2015)
    *Persons 25/64 years of age - 5.2%
    **Less than a high-school diploma - 9.6%
    **High-school diploma - 6.9%
    **Some college, but no degree - 5.6%
    **Associate's Degree - 4.2%
    **Bachelors or higher degree - 2.9%
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  14. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but not by going to compulsory, public school. School is a waste of resources whether you like it or not. :)

    No industrial advancement has come thanks to school and it never will.

    Of course, but such skill and competence is not gained in grade school. It is gained by working experience.

    Depends. If your Utopia, where everyone has a uni degree, becomes reality, then university degrees will be worth nothing. ;)
     
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  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Our education system is an obsolete relic - a massive boondoggle in the the new age of online information transfer.
     
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  16. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. All of the "basic knowledge" taught at school is something one can find out with a simple Google search. This egalitarian focus on "learning something about everything" is idiocy. Most people who have a genuine interest in, say, history learn more about it from playing games, reading magasines and watching documentaries at home than they do at the history class in school.
     
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  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Exactly right. It will be very difficult to save teaching as a profession unless teachers are freed from the dominance of administrators and union bosses. May already be too late.
     
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  18. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. Teachers are way too chained up in dumb governmental directions and have to waste their precious time on worthless paper-work. Give teachers more freedom and let children specialise at an early age - the keyword is freedom!

    At least, America has homeschooling. Here in Sweden, homeschooling is illegal.
     
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  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Provisionally credential all college graduates to form small minimally regulated elementary and secondary schools in their homes or office space and give the education budget to parents and guardians so that they can select the teachers and schools for their children. Colleges are already moving online.

    Sell all the real estate and give the money back to the productive working class.
    Politicians, just stand up for giving power/funding to the people and they will vote for you.
     
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  20. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Milton to the rescue! :heart:
     
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  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look, you are making claims without the slightest bit of substantiation.

    This is a "debate forum", with an exchange of opinion preferably validated by outside sources in order to substantiate ones proposals.

    If you don't "get it", that's fine. Just go palaver elsewhere. Perhaps you'd be happier on a Message Board ... ?
     
  22. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    This is not a college seminar, young man. I need no citations because I am only voicing my opinions and that exactly is what this forum is all about - sharing your opinion.

    You are yet to tell me how school is not redundant, too costly and too long.
     
  23. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    Another horribly researched and rambling thread from the same poster that thinks make college free fixes everything.
     
  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For those who think that schooling is ONLY about jobs, then I have posted previously the difference in annual income with each level of post-secondary degree. The proof is obvious.

    I also happen to believe, like most people, that the more education you have the "smarter in general" one is. The smarter a nation is, typically, the better it is run and the people more content.

    That you might disagree is no wonder whatsoever ...
     
  25. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    How do you propose forcing more people to finish high school? Make it easier? High school graduates are generally unprepared for college now.
     

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