Honest invitation to the Leftist Liberals -- please, tell us on the Right what you REALLY want!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pollycy, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    The first years of ww1 saw dozens of generals sacked within the first few months of fighting because they were peace time generals, when what everybody needed was a quick end to the war. By the third year of the war, the general populace was asking why what they were doing isn't criminal. We've been at war for so many years, and these generals that you love can't accomplish anything. Trump deals in results, and he gave them two years to accomplish what they were told to accomplish.

    Sorry, but how many years have we been in the middle east? Time to tell your peacetime generals to go to hell. Too many American lives have been lost due to their incompetence.

    Good grief!!!!
     
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  2. ziggyfish

    ziggyfish Active Member

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    The left doesn't have any demands, all they want to see is society to fail, and hope that they can rebuild it using socialist principals. Moreover, the left is about opposition for opposition sake, and nothing else. Take for example the current wall debate, 2 years ago the Democrats wanted and voted for a wall. Today because Republicans want a wall they now refuse to fund it.

    The left has abandoned moral values many years ago, and really stand for nothing. They say they believe in workers rights yet, in most communist countries, workers are the most abused and mistreated (often living in houses that collapse on a regular basis). To the Left, the ends justify the means.

    There is a really good book on the tactics of the left called Rules for Radicals by Saul D. Alinsky. This book explains in detail exactly what the left believes in and how they fight. In this book, Saul outlines the following rules:

    1. "Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."
    2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people."
    3. "Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy."
    4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
    5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon."
    6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
    7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."
    8. "Keep the pressure on."
    9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
    10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
    11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside"
    12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
    13. "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
    Everything the left does fits into these rules.
     
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  3. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Can we on the right weigh in yet? Because I can tell you what the left wants and why compromise is impossible.

    I see the previous poster just did. But it's incorrect to say the left stands for nothing. They do stand for something, but it's fundamentally incompatible with Western Civilization.
     
  4. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good thread, Pollycy.
     
  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    A complete non answer and attempted thread jack. Start your own thread on it.
     
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  6. ziggyfish

    ziggyfish Active Member

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    I was refering to the leaders of the left stand for nothing. The leaders of the left are very opportunistic and pit groups against each other in order to get them to vote for their party. For example, the left often tells the poor that they are poor because the rich stole from them.

    The end goal for the leaders of the left is power and dictatorship.

    The voters themselves have beliefs, not so much the leaders.
     
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  7. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    First, I have not ignored the waste, as you can see from the 3rd point of my original post. In fact, I don't like the waste either, I just don't think the waste justifies killing the whole program, or that addressing the waste will be more effective than just living with it. After all, the internal combustion engine (ICE), which we rely on for a large part of transportation and industry, produces roughly 70% waste. Does that mean we should stop using the ICE? Absolutely not. We should try to make it better, yes (although the max efficiency is limited by thermodynamics).

    Second, with regard to incentives: People on welfare already have an incentive to work. This incentive is the social status and dignity afforded by work. Ever gone to a party and bragged about how you live on welfare? No? Why not? Because people define themselves through the work they do. Will there by some outliers? Yes, but no matter how hard you work, you won't be able to eliminate them all.

    The other part of the incentive is jobs that pay a living wage. You can't blame anyone taking welfare when they need it to survive, because the minimum wage Walmart greeter job doesn't pay the bills. That's where we have to start, we have to prevent the hollowing out of the middle class by wages that either stagnate or go down in real terms.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  8. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    You won't see a "living wage" as long as the borders are NOT secure. This is why the left wants open borders, to keep wages low, and then force a minimum wage to fix the so-called "living wage" problem.

    The end result is small business is destroyed in favor of large corporations. But small business used to employ the majority of people in the U.S.

    It is BIG government controlling everything, even while they are the ones doing the destruction.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  9. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do they want?

    Liberal Activist/Progressive,Jane Curtin, summed it up.



    So how are people supposed to respond to this one example from thousands?
     
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  10. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. Every single thing they do and support is to achieve one of two goals:

    - Regain or maintain political power, and/or
    - increase the people's dependency upon government.
     
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  11. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    You beat me to it. :D

    Compromise is not an option with them.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  12. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Concur.
     
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  13. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Here we go, Pollycy, I guess your colleagues on the right are not listening to your very reasonable request. Except for Belch, who responded after actually reading posts from the "left", our other RW friends just tell us what THEY think the left wants instead of actually reading some very reasonable posts about what some left-leaning posters want. On top of it, what these RW posters THINK the left wants is actually what they were spoonfed by RW talk radio and trash blogs to BELIEVE what the left wants.
     
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  14. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Your FALSE CHARACTERIZATIONS only intensify our beliefs against YOU.

    I thoroughly explained to you why a living wage isn't going to happen under current conditions and you IGNORED IT!

    Steve

     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  15. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Right! And then you posted this, agreeing with a crackpot post doing exactly what I stated in my last post:

    "You beat me to it. :D

    Compromise is not an option with them.

    Steve
    "

    As to a living wage: I am an immigrant myself, although legal. I am for legal immigration, not illegal immigration. I am against characterizing all immigrants as criminals and job stealers with a broad brush, especially those who are here because of asylum. Finally, I do not believe that it is immigrants who keep wages down. It is offshoring by the corporations, who just got rewarded with a nice tax cut for it, combined with automation. But, GOP, keep kicking down to the lowest of the low (immigrants and poor), if that makes you feel better. However, that won't prevent real wages to slide further, especially at the low end..
     
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  16. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Ask Nancy Pelosi why she and Schumer are fighting tooth and nail to stop Trump from increasing BORDER SECURITY. Dems only won a 4 to 5 percent in the House ABOVE BREAK EVEN.

    Pelosi was booted out for ignoring HALF THE COUNTRY'S NEEDS BACK IN 2010 when dems passed Obamacare without one vote from (R)s.

    The reason for immigration laws in the first place was to PROTECT THE AMERICAN WORKER'S jobs and wages.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  17. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    I have no love for Pelosi. In fact, I created a thread in the past to suggest to Dems to let Trump build his wall:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/hint-to-democrats-let-trump-build-his-wall.546981/

    I think the wall is a waste of time and money and won't be effective, but it is not my priority to prevent him from building it.

    Now the ball is in your court, what do you think about solving the problem of offshoring of jobs by American companies, as well as automation?
     
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  18. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Trump is working on off shoring, but he can't do a DAMN THING WHEN DEMS ALL MARCH IN LOCK-STEP TOGETHER AGAINST THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!

    What the hell is wrong with you people?

    Steve
     
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  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Please understand, I may have created this thread, but I don't envision myself as a kind of 'moderator'. Accordingly, any poster can say whatever he/she wishes. That said, during the 10+ years that I've been posting here, I've become known as a being very Conservative (particularly on all economic issues). And for those same 10+ years, I've seen our country increasingly divided into Left and Right -- two 'camps' that have grown to truly HATE each other. This has got to stop! Somehow, someway, we have to stop this endless political "trench-warfare" which accomplishes nothing but the development of every negative thing in the natures of BOTH of our main political factions.

    That's why yesterday I determined to at least ASK those in what I've described as "the Liberal Left" to TELL the rest of us what it is that they WANT exactly! How do THEY see US? Can they imagine a set of circumstances in which we can not only coexist, but actually work together? I want them to TELL us what they want, and I want us on the Right to LISTEN to them. If we cannot do that with 'open ears', then the "trench-warfare" will continue endlessly, until eventually we will essentially destroy ourselves....

    I tell you truly, Ziggy, I can not (MUST not, and WILL not) allow myself to believe that the Liberal Left wants "society to fail". Surely, they want for society to reorganize, to restructure itself, and for many things they see as flat-out WRONG to be corrected, but nobody but crazy people want to live in a constant state of angry upheaval with nothing but decay and failure as a certain future!

    We MUST listen to each other -- and yesterday I decided that I have to be the one to stick my head up from the 'trench' in this endless "trench-warfare" and yell out to the other side, "HEY, WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT? CAN WE FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER?!"

    We may not resonate well with what they tell us, and we may fundamentally disagree, but, as the old saying goes, "Communication is the beginning of Understanding".
     
  20. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    1) Trump had the Senate and the House for two years, why didn't he work on offshoring?

    2) Tariffs are not the same as trying to prevent offshoring.

    3) Giving corporations who offshore a huge tax cut is not looking like working on offshoring.

    4) Hiring immigrants in his own companies and having MAGA hats made in China doesn't look good for his "offshoring" platform.

    But nice try to attempt blaming it on the Dems, as usual, when the Dems had no power for 2 years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  21. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    I'm not assuming what "Ziggy" meant, but it is clear that dems are destroying the U.S. economy for THEIR political benefit. It doesn't take much to think they are smart enough to know the eventual outcome of destruction.

    Add to that the social destruction of our institutions that have existed for 1000s of years.

    Corrupt bureaucrats, the lying liberal media, and the dem party are all working together to reach some end game of destruction.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  22. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Personal attack noted. Once again proving that the far right cannot help but resort to such subversion because they continually lose every debate on this forum.

    Of course, if you trouble yourself to click on search you would see plenty of references I made to CONSERVATIVE Antony Sutton whose works authenticate the claim that it is you far right Republicans that financed your heroes Hitler and the commies.

    Thank you for your concession as it represents yet another victory for the real patriots.
     
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  23. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I've chosen to respond without reading the other posts, so I apologize if I am being repetitive. Also, at the risk of sounding too idealistic, I am throwing out ideas that will likely never come to pass...

    1. I want Universal healthcare. A country as advanced as America should be caring for its citizens' health. No need to discuss 'how', as we have many threads on that very subject.

    2. I want to ensure there is a responsible and enforced registry for all gun ownership. While I, personally, would like to see private gun ownership illegal, I respect the 2nd Amendment and those who wish to own guns. But I do believe that there is no need for private citizens to own semi automatic weapons.

    3. I want a government that lives in 2019. One that looks at its citizens as they exist today, not the 1960s, and makes laws that are inclusive and protective.

    4. I want passage of the Equal Rights Amendment. It is incomprehensible that, in 2019, it still does not exist.

    5. I want big money out of the election process. That includes campaigning (no need for the long, drawn out and multi million dollar extravaganzas that exist today) as well as lobbying. It is nothing more than corruption that those with the most money have the attention and support of law makers.

    6. I want REAL immigration reform. Realistic immigration reform. People should not be coming to America illegally and receiving the same benefits and privileges as American citizens. Asylum seekers should be welcomed, but processed accordingly. Dreamers should be given citizenship. As to how this happens, damned if I know.
     
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  24. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    He DID begin with the tax cuts that benefits employees AND is bringing back companies into the US.


    Trump is still a FAIR TRADER. You are only showing that you believe every word and lie from the lying liberal media.

    When immigration is reduced to levels appropriate to economic needs, the WAGES WILL RISE AGAIN when companies are FORCED to offer more money to HIRE PEOPLE AWAY FROM OTHER COMPANIES.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  25. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing, Steve... you and I may genuinely believe that those on the "Liberal Left" are, as you say, "destroying the U. S. economy for THEIR political benefit", and we on the Right may be able to provide what we acknowledge as ample evidence to support our contentions, but what I'm hoping to hear from them is WHY they want what they want, and WHAT they imagine they will have achieved IF they are successful in doing exactly what they want!

    Overriding everything else, Steve -- the Left cannot "crush" us, and we on the Right cannot "crush" them. And the longer each of our factions continues with "crushing" initiatives, the more likely it is that we will be completely sidelined throughout the world by our adversaries and opponents -- who are (unfortunately for us) VERY intelligent, VERY well-organized, and VERY unified in pursuing agendas that are good for their own countries, and inimical to OURS. You know who I mean... Russia, and China.

    I can wish that Democrats would offer candidates like John F. Kennedy again, and I can wish that we on the Right could offer candidates like Ronald Reagan again -- but I don't see that happening at all. But we can't just give up and refuse even to TRY to work with each other. We may never "love" each other, but we'd better find a way to WORK with each other or the Russians and the Chinese will find new "ways" for us!

    So, I want to hear what the Liberal Left has to say! I want them to TELL us what they WANT! I want them to TELL us what THEY think we can do to work together for the benefit of ALL of us.
     
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