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Hope - Obama's new attempt to soak the middle class

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by Hoosier8, Feb 22, 2012.

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  1. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    the fed income tax is intensely progressive on wage earners.
     
    squidward, Mar 4, 2012
    #26
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is called an equity bubble. If you are going to blame someone else for people taking out mortgages they could not afford, then there is little discussion as you do not understand personal responsibility.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #27
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again you don't even understand the discussion. Investment is investing in this country. It takes capital to invest. The government decided that people investing in this country was a good thing instead of a bad thing so made law that encouraged investment. This is what you disagree with.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #28
  4. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    what did they care ? They got to live in nice homes they couldn't afford.

    Those that played by the rules got the shaft.
     
    squidward, Mar 4, 2012
    #29
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All I am asking is for you to back up your statement that I am dishonest for presenting a fact.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #30
  6. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's correct. And like starcraftzzz already mentioned, income taxes only make up about 1/4th of all taxes.
     
    Meta777, Mar 4, 2012
    #31
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you can blame the exuberance and psychology of any equity bubble. There have been equity bubbles before and will be after. This is the problem that has not been solved. You may wish to place blame but if blame could be so easily placed, then equity bubbles would have been solved long ago.

    You miss the mark by placing all your eggs in the basket of anger driven blame.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #32
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who was that in the government that decided this? Since you seem to have the inside scoop, tell us who and when.

    BTW: I think you have that turned around. Raising taxes on income tax probably does not affect investment but raising taxes on investment absolutely does since less money to invest means less investment.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #33
  9. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    would you like to apply a progressive rate to every tax ?
     
    squidward, Mar 4, 2012
    #34
  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Income taxes make up about 35% of all taxes.
    15% fees
    15% Business
    19% social insurance taxes
    23% ad velorem

    So basically anyone that creates income pays at least 54% total taxes Income 35% + Social Insurance 19%.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #35
  11. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think most taxes should be progressive, though I don't think its necessary that every tax is.
    There are some taxes for instance that would be difficult to add progressiveness to, such as a consumption tax.

    I don't think such a tax should be progressive, though the progressive taxes should be at least progressive enough
    that any regressive tax does not have a significant impact on the overall progressiveness of the tax system.

    I also think that progressive taxes should be at least progressive enough so that the government can afford the various services
    that the majority of Americans want provided without running a budget deficit.

    Note that when I casually throw out the term 'truly progressive' I am simply referring to a tax system in which given any pair of individuals the one who makes more pays a higher percentage. Also note that such a tax can have varying levels of progressiveness, as in how much bigger of a percentage the higher income earner pays.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 4, 2012
    #36
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem with progressive thinking is that when the government gives away the farm, the public then expects to get the farm every time and riots when they don't.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 4, 2012
    #37
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    What are you saying? That governments should not act to meet the needs and wants of the people over which they govern?
     
    Meta777, Mar 10, 2012
    #38
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not at the expense of our rights.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 10, 2012
    #39
  15. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Do we have a right then not to be taxed progressively? I never heard of such a right.

    Also, isn't it part of the government's job to protect our rights? Is it not the government who gives us rights in the first place?
    Is it not the government who defines what rights are?

    So what should happen in cases where protection of one's rights are said to come at the expense of another's perceived rights.
    Are all rights equal, or do some rights supersede others?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 10, 2012
    #40
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our labor should not be taxed at all. That makes us fractional slaves of the State. It took progressives and a blatant swing around the constitution to get this foisted on the pubic.

    It is apparent that some believe the government is above the law. You cannot take from your neighbor to give to whoever you see fit, the government is an extension of the public and should not be able to either.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 10, 2012
    #41
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    First of all, labor is not taxed, rather it is income from labor that is taxed,
    and it is my belief that the true value of someone's labor is not always equal to what they are paid for doing it.
    That said, I agree that there are theoretically better ways to tax than an income tax.

    And BTW, isn't it the government that makes the law? Surly individual politicians should not be allowed to break the very laws they write,
    but if the government legalizes taxation, who or what is to say that government cannot then tax individuals in order to provide for the welfare of the general population?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 10, 2012
    #42
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only reason you have income from labor is because it is more useful to have income from labor instead of direct barter; therefore, income from labor represents the labor you expended so when you tax labor you are taking my time directly from me because if I wanted to live on less money, I could just work less. When government takes money from my labor they are taking the time I used to make that money, time I cannot recover and time that I will receive no income from. If you choose not to work for the government but are forced to and receive no income for it, that is fractional slavery by State force.

    Income from labor was never supposed to be taxed and wasn't (except for a Civil War tax) until a progressive got into the White House.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 15, 2012
    #43
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