Household Battery Subsidy

Only advocate independent election of the chief executive. or not

Especially now with the experience of Australia's parties ? ? drifting ? ?
Is Labour really the best vote for the working bloke?

 

Absolutely.

In regards to the electoral college, why do think they came into existence and do you agree that the members are under no legal compunction to vote the way the people want?

 

@Sallyally and Aussies everywhere.

Is Labour really the best vote for the working person?

 

Absolutely no doubt, the conservatives would have us working for peanuts, not quality ones, those would be exported, seconds.

 

I think so.
The Liberal party used to be more inclusive and had an appeal to working people but it has shifted to the hard right.

 

It's the US thing about states rights, I understand.

 

Yes, you're right the parties aren't what they used to be.

I don't think it was Hillary's corruption that anyone was worried about.
The present incumbent has her thoroughly beaten, in that regard.

 

Then you remember Abbott

But really since the Prime minister is only the first among equals he can and is easily replaced if it turns out he/she is a complete and utter twonk

 

There are not that many countries in the world that both have a lot of money to care about things like renewable energy and have as much sunshine as Australia does.

 

No but there is wind, hydro, tidal etc . Solar is but one option . Cost ,take building a hydro plant and a coal fired plant. Coal has the continuous cost of supplying coal after its built and one day it too will become scarse and those not prepared will be facing bigger obsticals.

 

That sounds as though you think caring about renewable energy is optional.

 

He wasn't so much a surprise as a nightmare!

 

Germany produces billions of Kilowatt Hours electricity per month https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/05/03/germany-covered-12-1-of-its-power-demand-with-solar-in-april/

Renewables are finding a big ,arket in third world countries because they can be smalll scale

https://www.independent.co.uk/envir...d-developing-world-ren21-report-a7058436.html

 

In many parts of the world there is a lack of infrastructure that is necessary to maintain a national power grid.

Individual homes using solar panels and batteries can have the benefits of electricity via the use of renewable energy. This eliminates the dependence upon fossil fuels for lighting, heating and cooking and enables appliances like cell phones and access to the internet.

The cost of a small 12 volt system is within the budget of the people in these 3rd world nations and the benefits would be enormous. Just no longer paying for the fossil fuels would make the system pay for itself.

 

Honestly, haven’t we learnt anything about subsidies yet? Who is going to pay for this? Or do you still think government money is free money?

I note one poster, not sure who, suggested that if 60% of houses became self-sufficient huge savings in coal would be achieved. The fact is, residential energy demand actually uses very little of the entire consumption. I am not sure of the figures but can tell you, that industry uses approximately 90% of the energy produced. Australia lost car manufacturing because to survive it demanded HUGE subsidies. While everybody is trying to blame everybody else for the demise, the truth was stated by them all. The industry was inviable while it needed to survive on subsidies.

We sat through a carbon tax that saw energy prices rise 100%, so the compensation for the poor of around 10% was eaten up and forced to wear a 90% increase. Subsidies ALWAYS hit the poor hardest and in this case appears that they will pay the most for that ideal you wish to have. Just because you can afford it, doesn’t mean everybody can.

Whenever government subsidies an industry, it will never grow. People talk about how if we can do this or that the industry will become viable. Never has happened. Workforces or suppliers eat those subsidies up, so just as the demand for growth continues so does the demand for subsidies.


The fact is, it is tokenistic measure that unless your wealthy, will only be a cost. This policy is taking tax payers money and giving it to well off to help pay their power hungry demands while taxing the poor to pay for it. I cannot think of a more blunt policy of any of these parties that demonstrate a desire to fund the wealthy while pillaging the poor. Rich get richer poor get poorer, Opportunity lost for more. All in the name of climate change…

 

Do you know how many ways you live with government subsidies on a daily basis?

The air and water you use is clean because the government provides the inspectors to ensure that it is not polluted. The food you eat won't make you sick because the government provides the inspectors to make sure that it is safe. Your roads are paved and maintained by the government and so are the streetlights. Your vehicle is safer to drive than ever in the past because the government has regulated that safety on your behalf.

That is just the tip of the iceberg as far as the government subsidies go that you receive on a daily basis.

Yes, you receive these subsidies because you pay taxes to live in subsidized society. That is how the system works.

 

Yes there are many different way the government serves its people. Yet all those things are not subsidising industry to provide competitive industries. I think you miss the point.

It is like saying the police, government departments and politicians are subsidies for the people or welfare is a subsidy, fact is that is incorrect.

BUT yes there are a lot of subsidies in Australian economy which does go directly to corrupting the free market system Australia resides under. Such as the Tasmanian freight subsidies (cannot remember what it is called) to help make industry competitive in Tasmania. The corporate subsidy to export around the world to help make Australians goods competitive around the world. ALL of which are to try retain jobs and industry in Australia.

BUT when it becomes necessary to subsidies industry in AUSTRALIA to be competitive in AUSTRALIA with other Australian industry, the people who are left to pick up the tab are often the poor. You discuss government services as subsidies, and technically you could make a case, but there is no competition to provide those services so without government to service them, they would not exist. SO those services would be much better classed as welfare. Two different measures.

 

So you are saying that there are other existing Australian battery manufacturers that are NOT being subsidized?

That is NOT what I understood from the OP link. Homeowners would receive the subsidies when they purchased household batteries from any of the battery manufacturers.

The purpose of the homeowner subsidy would be to promote the market for household batteries and ultimately bring down the price for everyone.

This would also promote job growth both in the factories and for home installers of the systems. Here in the USA renewable energy has been the driver for job growth so there is every reason to believe it would be the same in Australia.

 

No, are you suggesting that solar and battery instillation is the only form or energy production in Australia??? The OP points out that battery subsidies are relevant to solar instillations or do you think that is different???

Ah, the growth in jobs and so on… That is interesting point. What is it; the one plant in Australia intending to produce batteries will employ 400 jobs… WOW that is 400 new jobs in renewables, How about the 900 lost when closing down the cheaper coal fired power plant that actually produces the energy the batteries store. I know that is the greens intention, ignore the current jobs while pretending growth in another area. I point out the car industry in AUstralia that was subsidies to the tune of billions a year, NOW non-existent due to the fact it was unsustainable to survive on government subsidies. few thousand jobs lost. But hey, who cares right??? As long as it doesn’t affect your job, or your income. Who cares about those who do pay…

I love the idea that it is the same in the US as Australia, Do you have a clean energy policy??? You know a policy that subsidies building windfarms by taxing the cost of power generated??? Sounds wonderful don’t it??? BUT just as South Australia finds out, who claims to be self-sufficient on renewables while paying another state to pick up the base load with their coal generation. An entire state blacks out due to failures in infrastructure. Guess the fact that poor struggle to pay their power bills due to increasing prices. Who cares???

Just as taxing and abating emissions cost the poor, while the rich benefited from creating abatement funds, artificially bolstering the price of energy to subsidise the manufacture and operations of renewable sources, once again is far more detrimental to the poor than the rich. But don’t worry the ALP plan to create a new corporation to supposedly reduce the price of energy to the people who cannot buy the batteries of the solar panels. Yep and guess who is going to pay for that???

Again, The Coalition intend to reduce power prices by changing the renewable energy guarantee ( to fund the subsidies) to appear to reduce the price of energy. The fact is that this will give an appearance, however the reality is the price is not changing, and just how much the price is artificially created.

Since you are American, we can assume you are unaware of the tax cuts this party is intending to give while raising taxes on self-funded retirees. Cutting of tax policy that will raise rents and reduce housing prices, which is applauded by many as good policy except for those who have purchased a house and remain paying it off with reduction of prices considered to be up to 25%, but hey who cares that their loans are going to exceed the value of the property they are leveraged on. More new home buyers will be able to buy into the market. Again policy that go further to growing the gap between the rich and poor doesn’t concern as long as people can say they are helping the environment…

AS I often ask, how many people have to suffer and die to placate your ideal of how people should live???

 

Fossil fuels and nuclear energy have been SUBSIDIZED here in the USA to the tune of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars for decades.

And in spite of all those massive subsidies the utilities are INVESTING in renewable energy because they have done the math and figured out that it is a way for them to get away from being held hostage by the fossil fuel cartel. Individuals are doing the same math and figuring out that by reducing and/or eliminating their dependence on the power grid they are no longer held hostage to increasing energy prices so the are INVESTING in renewable energy for their homes. The use of batteries is essential if you want to go the grid entirely.

As an aside that is where I hope to end up myself. I have already eliminated 30% of my grid consumption by installing solar hot water. Those savings will be used to purchase solar panels and batteries which will accelerate my savings to go off the grid.

FTR the Republican fiscal malfeasance regarding giving massive taxcuts to the wealth have resulted in a National Debt now in excess of $20 TRILLION so you still have a way to go to reach where we are.

Housing prices in the USA COLLAPSED in 2008 because of the Republican/Libertarian fiscal malfeasance DEREGULATION that enabled the Wall Street Casino Bosses to pull of the largest theft of middle class wealth in the history of the world.

Protecting yourself from these egregious excesses is accomplished by taking advantage of these battery subsidies now available to ordinary Australians to free themselves from being dependent on the power grid. If I was over there I would jump at the opportunity.

 

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

. A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.. - Albert Einstein

To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle, requires creative imagination and marks real advance in science. - Albert Einstein
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We subsidise Gina Rinehart FFS. We need to look rationally at the whole system.

The poor, well those that earn enough to pay tax, for the most don't mind paying tax. They of course are closer to the edge and know that at the whim of a politician or the stroke of a pen in the boardroom, they could be relying on welfare for their very survival .

The less well off are usually more generous both with time and money for charity.

Not sure if you meant my post but I said that if ALL residential properties produced at least 60% of their electricity. I never said it would solve the problem, and I never factored in businesses a lot of wharehouses have enormous roof areas. It isn't just the 8% difference to consumption, it's the whole attitude to fixing the problem.

Coal as delicious as it is, will run out and then it's too late to figure out a way out.

What happens is not a result of markets, supply or demand. What happens economicaly is what is allowed by the 10% and the justification for this by conservatives is that they hold the wealth so don't rock their boat.

The cries of the conservatives that we are envious is not only totally incorrect but insulting.

We don't want their homes or property, we do however want them to pull their own weight ... At least, in my opinion a little more than there own weight ... Why? If a group of men were going to carry some luggage, one man was a strong and fit 30 year old and another was a weedy youngster.

It's kind of expected that the bigger person carries a little more weight ... Why? Because he can.

 

What's the price difference between self-sufficiency and coal?

Would a 20% subsidy be enough to offset the difference? (If not, what percentage level of subsidy would it take?)

 

If is your carbon dioxide. So keep getting rid of what you produce.