How America Could Lose a Land War in Europe to Russia (Thanks to Old Tanks)

Ohhh, my fault my fault... Zoom is not Ukranian or from Batumi.He is native American! We should not offend him or he will complain to Trump and then we are in trouble Do you want to be in trouble? Me not... We'd better

 

I'm actually awaiting a pic of yourself, but somehow that won't happen, I guess you don't want others to see what an abomination you may be?!?!LOL, I see you happy your Vaseline buddy Goody's back, you were getting down in the dumps there, losing arguments, now you have your Turkish friend from the bayou back stuffing "likes" in your comments section.

 

Why do you want to see my picture? Do you want to marry me or what? I would not be suprized - American society likes gay marriages
Let me think. You have always put likes to Litwin. Now he has disappeared... Now you put a lot of likes to Fred Dobbs... I am afraid he will disappear soon too, like Litwin. Dude, what did you do to poor Lituanian guy??? I am afraid of you

 

Oh no heaven forbid, wait, I take it back, I don't want to see a pic of you, I don't need nightmares, why would I want to marry you, vis, you not my type, besides goody would be terribly jealous you know these turks, they're possessive. Oh how you know fred Dobbs will disappear, is he getting "fired"? I didn't do anything to litwin, )), I'm too far from Lithuania, besides he should be back soon enough, im sure you dread that since you talk about it enough,)).

 

I think question mark looks good on you dude. Although false it still gives an insight that you "question"... Lol...

 

Dude I know this will disappoint you but the fact of the matter is Scarlett and I are like sauce and pan.. Like a saucepan you know...
She kissed me today on the lips like a Fwench qiss. I think I can expect more of it. Those lips were like strawberries... Dayum...

 

But "For anyone to insinuate that there is any conventional conflict between the United States and anyone anywhere we wouldn't kick their teeth in is sheer retardation". You mean that's not true? You mean the mighty war machine of the USA only wins when there are "rules" which make the enemy fight the way the USA wants them to fight?

(P.S. - read the posts before responding so when you jump into the middle you know the topic)

 

Maybe Russia believes "you can't win any war from the air"?

 

Lol, and it shows in Syria currently.

 

Apples, and oranges.
Vietnam was a counter-insurgency conflict, just like the one the Russians lost in Afghanistan. The article is about a conventional war, between the US, and Russia.
Try not embarrassing yourself next time, comrade.

 

Why don't you jump in when you know what you're talking about. Our military would never assume the enemy would conform to rules of war, our enemies never have and never would. It's the rules of engagement that we abide by and frankly under barry they were getting people killed, just like LBJ.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...gement-in-afghanistan-limit-u-s-effectiveness

 

I think Iraq showed that in modern warfare tanks have another name.

Targets.

 

I'm still on the floor laughing at Russians calling US tanks "old", when they are just NOW catching up to that old tank, with their brand new model, when the "old" US one was designed in 1972. Good job catching up, Ruskies! It only took you almost 50 freaking years! Next you will tell us how our Iron Clad ships in our civil war museum are out dated compared to your new ships.

 

The US ceased, but other NATO countries? For example Germany? It is interesting to compare the Russian tank with "Leopard", for example.....However.... as the press secretary of the German Defense Ministry, Jens Florsdorf, said two years ago, about 250 tanks of the Bundeswehr are in a terrible state and require considerable expenses for restoration. Given that the modernization has not started, now, I think, it's still worse....Maybe for germany it's banal there is nothing for participation in competitions in a tank biotlon?

But there will be other competitions. For example, air combat aircraft and the accuracy of the bombing....Although ... I forgot ... "Triumph" does not fly at night. And bolts are pouring out of him.

 

In fact, your laughter - is a banal hysterics.

 

Congrats on catching up to our tanks, 50 years late. Next you will brag about how you have invented the jet engine.

Also, if your new tech has people inside, you are doing it wrong.

 

Read the posts, you are whining at the wrong person.

 

Your tank is almost as old as the Russian T72. That is the tank it was designed to counter.

They didn't wait fifty years to build a newer one than you. They waited 4.
And then again they did not wait for you and 10 years later built new tanks again, and since then they have done so again.

Your tank is fully 3 generations behind theirs.

They make the worlds best selling and most used tanks. Your Chobham armour plates, that you welded on the front of your tanks in the 90's, they had fully integrated into their tanks in 1964.

You will never keep pace with Russian tank technology because they make so many more tanks than you. Best sellers. Every factory run, they get better.

 

Over 100 old tanks, Leopoard A4, which were out of use are upgraded to the actual Leo2 A7V (version from 2016), 20 A7V are in use already, in May 2017 104 were ordered, delivery 2019 until 2023 and also 34 chassis for coming versions. In use are the version Leo2 A6, A6M, A7 and A7V. In the end the Bundeswehr will have 328 Leo2 A7V.

The A6M and newer have an anti tank mine protection which saved some Dutch soldiers in Afghanistan who would have been dead in an older version.
The Leo2 ist still a good one.

The missing night flight capability was only a temporary problem due to a faulty software update.

Without checking I assume that the stopped military cooperation includes all NATO countries.

 

You do know Chobham armor is not Reactive Armor right?

The Soviet's most definitely did not have Chobham Armor in 1964.

 

The T64 has composite armour.

It's not "Chobham". But it is the same technology Chobham copied from it.
We reverse engineered it.


And yes they as well have developed reactive armour since then and also, active defences, SHTORA and the like, Stuff that shoots down incoming fire.
They are quite simply multiple generations ahead of us in tank design. Hardly surprising when they produce so many more tanks than we do.

 

Please. The Brits and the US developed most of the newer tech for tanks. Also, what in the actual **** are you going to do with 20,000 tanks, given they have ZERO defense against air power? Tank is a synonym for target.

 

The Brits developed Chobam.
We stole the tech from the Russian T64 and reverse engineered it.
From memory one of our middle eastern buddies bought a T64 and then duplicitously sold it on to us.

Russia has very significant defence against air power.

If we take the Kosovo war as our example we can see that airpower, failed to destroy any tanks except that one T34 outside the front of the war museum.


Impressive! You win.

And that was just tiny Serbia using old export soviet kit.

Their Foxbats flew combat mission every day of the war, the Apaches were grounded out of fear and the Stealth bombers shot down by ground based AA, never to see action again. Along with other US bombers, such as the Hornet that were also shot down by AA.
And all this for... zero tank kills.

This tank, killed two Stealth bombers.




In Iraq, with total air domination. Airpower failed to reduce the tank numbers. They had to go in on the ground and get them tank to tank.
Saddam it turned out, used decoys. They had fires on top of their tanks.
Making them look burnt out from the air.


In the Six Day War, Egyptian tanks secured the Suez Canal, the Israeli air force rules the skies, except near the canal. Because the tanks were protected by SAMS.

Airplanes? Just targets.

In this documentary below, A British helicopter gunship pilot recounts his duel with a T55.
Frankly, he was lucky to have won it. Real lucky.
Vs 1970's Abrams fire control, he would have been dead on the first shot.





Tank is indeed synonymous with target. But aircraft are not the primary threat.


Merkava vs infantry.




This has been countered by advances in Russian armour, to shoot down, Javelin, TOW, Hellfire and Sagger, RPG and all the rest.

Here is a demonstration of T72 showing off it's missile shoot down capabilities.







Bottom line is this.
To defend a tank from the air, all I have to do is this.... park it inside.
Job done.

And if I want to get smart, I'll leave a trail of decoys leading your air forces right onto my guns.

 

No need to brag about missile engines. This is known to all. .. Today, Russia has many reasons for pride. For example, the Russians made the most powerful quantum computer in world. There is an American analogue also. They were presented at an international quantum conference in Moscow. But the Russian quantum computer is more powerful.

 

I know.