How chemical weapons have helped bring Assad close to victory.

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by cerberus, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Chlorine gas can be made at any time.
    Household bleach plus acid.

    Bleach + piss.

    So yes anyone can restock this particular chemical weapon at any time.
    Just go down the supermarket.

    I happen to think there is plenty of evidence for them.
    I've seen pictures of crying children.

    It stings the eyes and throat.
    I am quite happy to believe Chlorine gas has been used. And happy to believe the Assad regime has used it. They have had tactical reason to. (Entrenched enemy).
    I just don't think it's a big deal worth killing people over.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The BBC is an Establishment propaganda clown show. The propaganda in relation to the conflict in Syria (not just in relation to Chem weapons) has been over the top.
     
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  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) the chemical weapons being used were mostly Chlorine. Some of the Sarin claims have been falsehoods.

    2) Your "wholesale" slaughter claim is preposterous nonsense. There as no "wholesale" slaughter by Assad in the years prior to the war. Good luck protesting in Saudi Arabia or China like what was allowed in Syria.

    Regardless - Assad was no cherub - but, shoot your arrows straight and stop hyperbolizing.

    3) You have not studied the situation in Syria and are spewing way to much spoon fed state propaganda. I do not blame you for this as the MSM and Political Pundit propaganda in relation to Syria has been over the top on steroids.

    The war in Syria was not a "civil war" - it was a rebel insurgency. On the one side you had Assad's forces - on the other side you had Islamist extremists who wanted to turn Syria into a Strict Sharia Theocracy. That was the whole call to Jihad - not "Assad is a bad guy".

    Syria was one of a very few "Secular" Muslim nations. In the beginning there were a few somewhat moderate groups participating on the rebel side but - the vast majority were Islamist Jihadist extremists - Al Qaeda/Al Nusra Front - and the various groups of the same ilk that ended up coalescing into the modern incarnation of ISIS 2 years into the war in 2013.

    These Jihadists were supported and armed with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military equipment from major nation states - US, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and others.

    It was Assad and the people of Syria (the moderates who wanted to keep their freedoms and did not want a Islamist extremist Theocracy) that were fighting the extremists (Iran was on the side of Syria and Russia joined in later).

    It was the West and Gulf nations who were supporting the terrorists.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wonder how many of his enemies, the armed forces involved has he taken out with his bathtub made chlorine gas?

    Well, from what we have seen, very few. So, the idea that assad beat back the invaders with chemical weapons is nonsense.

    What turned the tide? Russia being invited in to do what we were refusing to do. But then, we wanted assad removed, and he was on that PNAC list, along with gadafi, and hussein.

    When you look closely at these gas attacks, and the kind of gas used, and given we know for a fact that some of the invaders were making gas, it looks more like assad was framed, or someone tried to frame him, given the gas attacks always seem to come when he would have more to lose than gain by the use of it.

    Not sure how a rational, logical, reasonable mind could claim assad was responsible. Well, such a mind would never arrive at that conclusion. But how do you deal with the irrational? You can't. So, you relegate them to the trash can and pay them no mind. If something makes absolutely no sense at all, the rational mind must sort these people out, and give them no relevance. That is, if you are looking for truth, the pearls in the piles of intellectual manure. And this demands rationality, logic, reason, and of course understanding that war involves more than just bombs and bullets, but propaganda as well. But it takes rationality, logic and reason to see through the propaganda, otherwise one can fall for it easily. So it comes down to the ability of the mind to be rational, logical, and reasonable. And there is nothing that smells of these 3 things when it comes to the people who can believe assad used gas, when it was against his best interests to do so. Potential suicide.

    I just don't believe a person could do the research, consider all of the known facts, and then conclude assad used gas. I think they would have to conclude gas was used in order to try to hurt assad's efforts at saving syria and his gov't.
     
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And more important is that Assad and as well the rebels are allowed to have Chlorine!


    I saw this pictures too and as sad as they are ... are they any evidence for a gas attack at all or in detail by the Assad regime? NO THEY ARE NOT!

    Where is the evidence that Assad throw here before a gas bomb or shot a gas grenade by artillery?
    Because the rebels are allowed to have chlorine too, there are a plenty of other possible scenarios given too ... also no evidence for this too of course. A simple example could be that a box with chlorine granul felt into a wather thug and whoops ... you have also a fat chlorine gas cloud with this result of crying kids etc.!
     
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  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course I wouldn't - especially when so many peaceable civilians were vaporized because of false information given to the military by - of all sources - the Taliban and various tribal leaders and war lords, as was shown in (I hesitate to mention it yet again) Bitter Lake. Being as smart as they undoubtedly are, I'll bet they couldn't believe what a walk in the park it was. And still is? (hackneyed phrase alert) You couldn't effing make it up!
     
  7. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The BBC is fully engaged in social engineering, with the predominance of mindless crap, such as movie reviewing, red carpets, wall-to-wall sport, moronic dramas, and entertainment shows designed for children under 5. Witness the popularity of Strictly and Doctor Who, etc?
     
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  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Of course, and that doesn't mean they have not acquired nuclear capabilities either. Anything is possible, right? As Cheney said all those years ago, if there is a 1% chance of anything we don't like, we invade.
     
  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I gave up with the BBC a long time ago.
    At least with RT you get a Russian perspective.

    I can get a British perspective from other British news agencies.
    More balanced ones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  10. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen any smoking gun evidence ot say it is Assad's regime doing it.
    And either side have the capability.

    But I would bet on Assad's side, simply because of the nature of the engagements they are fighting.
    It's an attackers weapon, not a defenders.

    Entrenched enemies getting flushed out of their hidey holes by gas.
     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sure ... but also an accident is possible too, isn't it?
     
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  12. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine what kind of an accident releases Chlorine gas.
    Let alone onto a battlefield or into a an urban area.

    Open to suggestions for that angle.

    I'm more comfortable with the idea of it's deliberate release by combatants.
    I've used the stuff myself and this marries up with my own methods.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Look ... For the treatment of most of the drinking water chlorine is needed ... even with the rebels. So, for example, they have lots of chlorine granules or tablets for them centrally and also for individual families.

    Now let's just get a box of the granules wet for whatever reason ... you'll start running and wish you a gas mask ... and the whole road will do it! ;-)
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you.

    Regrettably, many of the same individuals who believed Western MSM propaganda prior to the Iraq war have been equally duped when it comes to Iran & Syria.
    I've lost track of the number of times I've heard the catchy Hasbara myths that "Iran is the # 1 sponsor of terrorism." and "Assad is a brutal despot who gassed his own people."

    Both lies are as fraudulent (1) as they are easily regurgitated by many of the same individuals who fell for the lies about Saddam's "WMDs"

    Anyone willing to look beyond the superficial slander of "despotic" Bashar Assad will see someone who is very unlikely to "gas his own people".
    Bashar Assad was a Westernized MD (ophthalmologist) who had an established practice in London when he was compelled to assume leadership of Syria after the death of his older brother. While his younger brother is known to be a brutal individual, Bashar Assad has earned the nickname "Mr. Soft Heart"(2).

    The reason that B.Assad has withstood the combined efforts at regime change by Israel, the US & others is because of his popularity among the Syrian people, Syrian military. In spite of aid from Iran & Russia, a leader does not survive US, Saudi & Israeli supported ISIS(3), al Nusra & "Syrian Rebels" without the bedrock support of his people.




    (1) "NOW MATTIS ADMITS THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE ASSAD USED POISON GAS ON HIS PEOPLE: OPINION"
    https://www.newsweek.com/now-mattis...ence-assad-using-poison-gas-his-people-801542


    (2) "Mr. Soft Heart or Brutal Tyrant? Anti-Assad Narrative Falls Apart at Seams"
    https://sputniknews.com/politics/201511031029549034-assad-high-public-support-syria-elections/


    (3) "ISIS is a US-Israeli creation"
    http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/top-10-proofs-isis-us-israeli-creation/
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RT is where US journalists that want to express an opinion or present information that is contrary to the US Establishment narrative go. There are articles with a Russian perspective but when Rand Paul or various others go on and give their opinion it is not a Russian perspective - just a perspective contrary to the Establishment koolaid.

    I also notice that many of the stories paint the US in a negative light. These is real news from the US .. just the stories the mainstream media like to avoid.

    Some call this "Propaganda" but, if it is the Truth it is not propaganda.
     
  16. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

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    What evidence would you accept?

    The russian troll method of repeatedly whining "there is no evidence!" does not help one's failed positions.

    Only one side has an airforce.

    So assad fired missiles into college dorm buildings, tortured and murdered thousands in his prisons, sent militias to mass slaughter women/children, dropped thousands of barrel bombs many of them laced with chlorine and other chemicals - but you claim he could not have have used sarin gas?

    Is that the level of argument you're bringing here?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sarin-on-rebel-held-town-in-april-un-confirms

    "The international commission of inquiry on Syria, which is run by the UN, said it had compiled extensive evidence that the Syrian air force had carried out an airstrike that released the nerve agent. It dismissed claims by Damascus and Moscow that the carnage was the result of a bomb striking an opposition chemical weapons depot on the outskirts of the northern town as “fabricated”.

    In the most conclusive findings to date from investigations into chemical weapons attacks during the the country’s six-year civil war, it found that Syrian forces had used chemical weapons 20 times, including in the deadly attack on Khan Sheikhun that led to US airstrikes."
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or how about the "Stop Arming Terrorist Act"- complete with 11 bipartisan signatories from congress - explaining that the US was arming and funding extremist Islamist Jihadists (including Al Qaeda/Al Nusra and ISIS) in Syria. https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/gabbards-stop-arming-terrorists-act-introduced-senate

    or when VP-Biden contradicts Obama's "Moderate Rebel Lie"

    https://mideastshuffle.com/2014/10/04/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-and-armed-al-nusra-and-al-qaeda/

    Then you have our own Defense Intelligence agency just after the war started in early 2012 - stating clearly that the rebel opposition was dominated by extremist = aid to any groups fighting alongside these extremists (moderate or otherwise) is just helping the extremists.

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...12-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

    Mainstream media response ? Crickets - Silence.
     
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  18. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I haven't used granules, but I've seen them used in swimming pools, if you get them wet they make HCL. Hydrochloric acid.
    You get Chlorine gas when you break the H away from the Cl.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Yes RT is anti US.

    But it has the inside line on stories form the Russosphere.
    Even with their bias, they also have the information that other news services simply don't get.
    It's very good service consequently.
    Bias filter on. Their agenda is clear.

    If I wanted the inside line in UK state sector policies, I would of course use the BBC too.
    It's just I'm not interested in that stuff at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup - always best to get both sides of a story.
     
  21. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Two weeks ago there had been a report in our local newspaper where someone dropped the bucket of chlorine granules accidently into the water while maintaining his swimming pool and then gave chlorine gas alarm with alert of the fire department and evacuation of the neighborhood etc.
     
  22. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The question is Did Assad use it or was it someone else? This is the middle east we're talking about, where nothing is what it seems?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  23. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Correct Cerberus ... but just because it's the mad house ME, it does not mean that there are just as idiots running around as with us, who let a bucket of chlorine granules get wet, isn't it? It must not be always an evil act from whomever behind ... particularly with handling chlorine ;-)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  24. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It could even be Western dark forces who are responsible for these so-called 'chemical attacks'? All they need is a bombed out cellar, a video recorder, and a few kids.
     
  25. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Just what to correct some information about chlorine gas. The Chlorine gas used for example in WW1 is of a much higher concentration than that you would get from chemicals such as chlorinated isocyanurate crystals used in swimming pools. But either way, chlorine gas as a weapon is simple to make but not from swimming pool cleaning chemicals as it would be too diluted
     
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