How difficult is it to be an intelligence officer?

Discussion in 'Intelligence' started by KarlMarx, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. KarlMarx

    KarlMarx New Member

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    I believe it is extremely hard to be an intelligence officer, as it is almost impossible to gather information without losing public support. For example, if you follow someone to closely, people accuse you of harassment and stalking. If you do not follow someone whatsoever, they have the freedom to commit terror crimes, which you will be blamed for afterwards. What do you think?
     
  2. gorte

    gorte Banned

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    if it were me, I'd convert his gf into a spy for me, and then i"d not have to follow him around. :)
     
  3. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a vague question however I am certainly qualified to answer:

    First off, it depends how you commission into the military. In the Army, you can commission through ROTC, OCS, Military Academy, and Direct Commission. Each one has a different way of branching (branching is what branch of the Army you will work for. IE: Intel, Infantry, Signal...etc).

    When you commission through a military academy:

    This is the best way to commission. You get your first choice at the branches. Aviation, Infantry, and Intelligence are among the highest to seek. Therefore, those slots fill up very fast. If you branch Intel from a military academy, you will then go to BOLC and intelligence training. From there, you just became an intel officer.

    From ROTC and OCS:

    If you commission this way, you have less of a chance of branching intelligence. This is because military academies get the first shot at open slots. Then OCS and ROTC get what's left. In ROTC, you will be competing with everyone in your class for slots. However, if you choose to go National Guard rather than active Army, you will have a MUCH better chance of branching intelligence. In OCS you are 100% operating under Order of Merit. So how well you do on your PT tests and training dictates how likely you are to branch your choice. If you are in the top 10%, you will likely branch your choice.

    Direct Commission into intelligence doesn't really happen.

    Obviously, high asvab scores and PT test the beginning factors of branching intelligence prior to any training.

    Being an intelligence officer means you'll do lots of paperwork...

    I hope this helps! Reach out with any more questions.
     
  4. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Also to help clear the air, it's usually not officers gathering, it's their soldiers (IE: enlisting). HUMINT soldiers gather intelligence. It's an enlisted job.
     
  5. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think you understand what an intelligence officer does. They aren't recon, they don't go out on snoop and poop missions, it's more like a desk job in the rear with the gear.

     
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I know of some enlisted intelligence soldiers who ended up getting branched into Military Intelligence. One went to OCS and was branched intelligence, but he spoke Russian so that was an easy way in. The other went through ROTC, but was in an intelligence field in the Reserves prior to that. In his case he got dual branch, Infantry and MI. I assume he was able to get MI because he already had a TS clearance and it was easier to maintain that rather than start from scratch on someone else.

    But if you have an interest in intelligence work, you jump ahead of the pack if you are fluent in a strategically useful language, like Russian, Farsi, Arabic, Mandarin Chinese, or Korean. Also important, but minor languages like Dari or Pashto.
     
  7. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well true, however, if you are "intelligent" enough for intel slots, they'll send you to language school. Knowing a language a head of time does save money and time. Especially if you have your TS as you stated. However, that's speaking of Human intelligence.

    Intel analysts (clear intel or geospatial) are computer geeks :machinegun:
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You can certainly go to language school, but if you want to be an MI officer, as opposed to just enlisting and selecting your specialty, than you have bring something to the table. Otherwise you go where the needs of the service are.

    Frankly, if I wanted to be an intelligence officer, I wouldn't even think of going Army. The MI branch for officers is beyond screwed up. Better off going Navy or Air Force.
     
  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The oldest intelligence service in America is the ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence.)

    http://www.oni.navy.mil/
     
  10. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Branching for officers is order of merit. I don't think it's that screwed up. I think the best officers should get the first pick of jobs. It's effective. Navy and Air Force intel is more geospatial/sat com intel. Army has a great human intelligence network.
     
  11. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Depending on the branch, officer candidates may or may not take the ASVAB, however all of the enlisted will. The Army will use it as a determining factor in qualifying for OCS.

    Here are the exams utilized by each branch for officer candidates.

    Air Force - AFOQT
    Navy - ASTB

    Marines and Coast Guard will use portions of the ASVAB but if you want to be an aviator you'll take the ASTB.

    I was AFROTC and never took the ASVAB.

    I don't know to what extent ASVAB scores are used by the Army as it pertains to branching (commissioned officers)...for the Air Force it plays no role as the test is not required for either ROTC/OTS or Academy officer candidates; they have their own version of it incorporating aviation related questions.

    Typically your AFOQT results will be given a weight of about 15% of a cadet's order of merit.
     
  12. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was not trying to imply every officer candidate will take the ASVAB, however, it is very much a factor. I am required to take it before I can commission because my old scores are not being accepted because my contract ended. They are using my ASVAB scores as a part of my placement for OCS, is what I was told when submitting the packet.
     
  13. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    You already have your 4 year degree?
    As I stated the Army does look at the ASVAB score as part of selection to OCS, you probably need a minimum score along with degree.

    My question is, whether the ASVAB results are weighted in the Army's order of merit, and if so, to what extent.

    The Air Force AFOQT is used as a basis of whether a candidate is suitable to be a commissioned officer...once you're in a ROTC program or OTS (officer training school) the extent of the AFOQT results as it relates to a cadet's order of merit is relatively low...about 15%. Other determinants include class rank among your cadre, field training, physical fitness tests, GPA, college major. You earn an order of merit score and this is used as a basis when competing nationally with other cadets for categorization slots or "job openings." In the Air Force the most competitive being pilot slots, and Academy graduates get first consideration for those.

    Overall the AFOQT does play a significant determinant in selection as an officer candidate, but in terms of categorization/occupation, it is utilized to a lesser extent.

    Since the discussion is about Army Intelligence, we'll stick to that, because as I stated for an Air Force officer candidate the ASVAB is irrelevant, the Air Force has their own exam for officer candidates...the ASVAB is limited to Air Force enlistees.

    In terms of the Army; if you already possess a 4 year degree and score, say a minimum of 110 on the ASVAB, I don't know how much additional weight is placed on ASVAB results for getting your first choice on the "dream sheet" or how competitive the Intelligence branch is in the number of slots open verses the number of applicants. I would think Infantry would be the most popular first choice for cadets.
     
  14. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yea infantry and aviation are the most wanted slots, so says the board when I attended. I know nothing of Air Force current requirements as I'm commissioning Army. Recruiting and packet standards change every fiscal year.

    Honestly, all they told me my ASVAB was used for, was for OCS selection in the Guard.

    And when you say 110 on ASVAB, I assume you're speaking line scores and not overall?
     
  15. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    110 minimum on GT score (General Technical).

    Potentially an Army intelligence officer could score lower on the portion of the ASVAB that pertain to an Intelligence oriented MOS, than an enlisted. For the enlisted, they live and die by their ASVAB results as it relates to MOS selection.

    My point was, this has a lesser influence in how an officer candidate is given consideration for categorization; well that's what the Air Force calls it anyway. The Army refers to is a branch selection.

    An officer candidate can ace their AFOQT, but in the final analysis it's weight is given about 15% in their overall order of merit.

    You don't have to ace an ASVAB, just score above 110 on the GT sections (Word Knowledge and Paragraph Comprehension and Arithmetic Reasoning.....officers don't live and die by their ASVAB the way the enlisted do...for officer selection perhaps, but not branch selection.
     
  16. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right. My entire point of the post was that order of merit in OCS is how you get to branch what you want to branch. If you graduate number 1 in your class, and intelligence was your first choice, so long as an intel slot is open, you'll get it (unless you can't learn a language or any of the pre-requisites).

    Army order of merit is the law of the land for officers going through OCS or ROTC
     
  17. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    There are also quotas for gender and ethnicity now.

    A certain number of Intelligence officers need to be female, a certain number African-American or other minority.

    This is why many are upset that if quotas for females are applied to direct ground combat jobs we will see a deterioration in readiness.

    In terms of the question asked how difficult is it to be an intelligence officer...he or she will need a college degree at some point; however to be in the intelligence field, there are plenty of opportunities for an enlisted. In which case, the ASVAB would be the primary determinant of qualification. They would have to research the MOS and find out what qualifying scores are needed.
     
  18. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I know the quals for enlisted intel....former 35Mike.
     
  19. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    I should add one more thing to my prior post before I depart.

    When I say "quota" that isn't some sarcastic intent...gender and racial quotas are codified.

    ..10 U.S. Code ยง 656 - Diversity in military leadership: plan

    Women and minorities, in theory anyway, will have a bump in their order of merit strictly based upon non-merit based attributes.

    The danger is in not giving someone the job who is best qualified, but in giving someone the job so as to reflect an overall diverse military in appearance.

    I will concur, that the lowering of standards in order to push women through direct ground combat occupation schools, is a possibility given this codified law requiring a diverse military.

    It is political correctness run amok.

    Anyway, I'm off topic.
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I think it must be very hard. Most of the time we get a new 2nd LT from school it is worse then dealing with a brand new Private. They are literally dumber then a bag of rocks. Thankfully most outgrow that, but some Majors and Colonels are just as bad.

    Wait, I misread the title, i thought it said Intelligent Officer.

    My bad.

    :roflol:
     
  21. shmittygoatman

    shmittygoatman New Member

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    Well, I would tell you, but then I'd have to kill you...
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I meant internally, that the MI Branch for officers is screwed up, not the selection process. I've met a lot of dissatisfied MI officers who would like to work on actual intelligence work but wind up in the motor pool or someplace. That's why I said that it's probably better to go Air Force or Navy if you want to be an officer in the military.
     
  23. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Women tend to be better as intelligence analyst than men. They say woman's intuition. Women see things that males overlook. Just look at how many females intelligence analyst there are in the CIA and this was before liberal social engineering of the CIA where diversity comes before national security.

    But from what I hear you have some minority groups in the intelligence community because of PC diversity/affirmative action programs who are unqualified and would be more productive working in motor-T or flipping burgers. They are occupying in a slot that should be filled by someone who is more qualified.

    Probably the coolest position in military intelligence is or was , the military attache. Most were Naval attaches of the ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) who openly wore the uniform and worked out of American Embassies. When a foreign country's navy or army conducted exercises they were invited by the host country to observe.

    When Gen. Billy Mitchell conducted an experiment after WW l to prove that a battleship could be sunk by aircraft, the British, French, Italians,and even Japan had their naval attaches present to observe. You know what Japan did on Dec. 7th of 1941, they took battleship gun armor piercing projectiles and turned them into bombs to be dropped by aircraft.

    During the American Civil War, England, France and the Prussians all had military attaches on the battlefield observing observing on both sides.

    During the Banana Wars Germany had military attaches observing the U.S. Marines and observed how the Marines using signal flags would signal the Marine aircraft above directing the pilot where to drop it's ordnance or strafe the bandits with machine gun fire. The first time aircraft actually used in close air support. The German military attaches said those devil dogs are on to something. In the endgame came Blitzkrieg where German Stuka's were used in the support of advancing German infantry and armor.
     
  24. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    In a typical year USAF military intelligence will generate 460,000 hours of full-motion video, 2.6 million images and 1.7 million signals intelligence reports. Analysts have to sift through all of this data ...sitting side by side, slamming energy drinks while staring at computer screens for a 12 hour shift. The field has a high rate of burn-out.

    It is far from glamorous.
     
  25. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh I gotcha. Yea. That does happen.
     

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