How does “Common sense gun control” prevent mass shootings?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by TOG 6, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The previous administration, as well as all the current Dem candidates, want to do any number of things to prevent mass shootings.
    Examples:
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...hool-shooting-saturday-radio-address/1770609/
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/23/obama-urges-vote-on-assault-weapons-ban/
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ssault-weapons-ban-background-checks/1837793/

    Ok then...
    -I have a license to own a gun. To get that license I had to show a need to own a gun.
    -I have a license to carry a gun. To get that license I had to undergo training and undergo a fingerprinted background check.
    -All of my guns are registered; the state has their make, model, serial number and ballistic fingerprint on record.
    -I had to undergo at least one background check before I bought all of my guns, including those I bought in private sales and those I bought from the federal government – which required fingerprints
    -All of my guns and their magazines were purchased legally between 1995 and 2003.

    How do these things prevent me from shooting up a school or a mall or a movie theater?
     
  2. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    They are laws the authors HOPE will prevent a guy having a bad day or a break-up with his girlfriend from marching down to the store, buying a gun, and going on a killing spree. They aren't really addressing crazy, long term planning and execution.

    I think most law makers know that getting rid of all guns is impossible. So they are chipping away at some "what if" possibilities.
    Can we stop 5% of shootings? Maybe. Does that make it worth it. Depends on if your kid was in that 5%, doesn't it.

    Is that a terrible thing? Gun enthusiasts get to have their guns, it's just a little less convenient to get them. Hardly the end of the world.
     
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  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Just so we're clear:
    You agree - these laws won't stop anyone who commits to a mass shooting.
    Arbitrary, capricious, unnecessary and ineffective restrictions on the exercise of a right violates that right.
    Why should gun owners accept t heir rights being violated/
     
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  4. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    We don't agree. I said that such laws laws prevent EVERYONE from committing mass murder. I said they MAY stop someone who tries something in the heat of the moment. And they MAY slow down the rate at which the murderer CAN kill in mass.

    Waiting period laws MAY have already saved lives. It's a difficult thing to measure.

    I say this as someone who used to document crime scenes - a number of which were domestic shootings, which tended to be heat of the moment occurrences.
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You said:
    They aren't really addressing crazy, long term planning and execution.
    How then can you disagree with the idea that these laws won't stop anyone who commits to a mass shooting.

    And then:
    Arbitrary, capricious, unnecessary and ineffective restrictions on the exercise of a right violates that right.
    Why should gun owners accept their rights being violated?
     
  6. sailorman126

    sailorman126 Member

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    so how about we require fingerprints, background checks to get books after all it is only a minor inconvenience but we don't want he wrong person from getting certain books that might hurt someone or give them bad ideas. Or how about to vote? or go to church or a mosque. how about to be a reporter
    To be a reporter you must pass a gov test to make sure you only report what is good for the people you must also have fingerprints taken, you must give up you passwords for all social media sight you belong to so the gov can look over what you post(that is a law they are trying to pass in NY to own a gun).
    would you agree to things like this?
     
  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Daniel, supposedly a gun owner, is well-known for his refusal to state how much gun control is "too much" - for him, there is no line in the sand.
     
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  8. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's a common myth used by anti-gunners in an attempt to give them credibility amongst the unknowing they are attempting to sway the opinion of.

    It doesn't work with those who actually own and understand guns and recognize the little lies that such people let slip from time to time.
     
  9. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    They don't and never will, about then only ban that will help to reduce such shootings is a national ban on gun free zones.
     
  10. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    That is the issue that has to be addressed and resolved. Having fewer guns and eliminating certain types of guns will certainly help due to the lack of exposure, but regardless the problem has to be addressed. For example, the Menendez brothers had a 2-week wait to purchase a handgun in California, so they purchased shotguns immediately. A waiting period may have prevented the murder of their parents because the younger brother was very skittish about the idea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  11. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The "common sense" gun laws described in the OP do not address or resolve the issue?
    Show this to be true.
    "May have"?
    Waiting periods can only affect crimes where the criminal does not already have a gun -- indeed, if someone already has a gun, there's no sound argument for a waiting period.
     
  12. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

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    Such is nothing more than unfounded speculation devoid of acknowledgement of what is ultimately basic human nature.
     
  13. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    You have all the answers, don't you? I don't know about the "common sense" gun laws. Having fewer guns and less access to guns
    can only be proven by doing it, although in Australia it has proven to be true. A longer waiting period for any purchase is preferable to me. And yes, "may have". I personally knew both brothers and the younger tried to talk his brother out of it and the longer they waited the less chance there was of it coming to fruition. "Common sense"
     
  14. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Whatever that means.
     
  15. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yet they still have mass shootings in Australia.
     
  16. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member

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    Nothing would stop you, but the combination of these things would slow you down (e.g. you would need to show freedom from mental illness at the time you bought your weapons). I agree, however, that should you decide to shoot the world down nothing can stop you. But there again, if you choose to do something truly catastrophic, lack of guns will not stop you.
     
  17. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    You are not going to stop the train, but you can have an influence on it.
     
  18. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting response, given the post you responded to was full of questions.
    Do you support the laws outlined in the OP? If so, why?
    If you don't know it will work until after it is tried, why should we agree to try it?
    Only if you do not understand the meaning of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
    Waiting periods can only affect crimes where the criminal does not already have a gun and cannot get one illegally -- indeed, if someone already has a gun, there's no sound argument for a waiting period.
    Why do you prefer waiting periods for every purchase?
     
  19. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    What then do you say to or about those who claim we need these "common sense" gun laws to prevent mass shootings?
     
  20. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member

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    Enforce the common sense laws we have first. see what effect that has If it's not enough, then think about enacting more. The problem as I see it is not that there are no laws; it is that no one is enforcing them.
     
  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    I cannot disagree with that.
    -They- will, however.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  22. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you believe that when someone snaps, they will go out and buy a new gun rather than use one they already have?

    Armed bank robberies were once a big problem. How was that problem handled?
     
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which would be ruled unconstitutional.
     
  24. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Donor

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    Largely with armed security guards and barriers between the customer side and the teller sides of banks.
     
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  25. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The burden is on the state to show cause for the denial of an exercise of your rights; you do not need to prove your ability.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019

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