How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?

LOL. Where did I say that? Talk about assuming!!

 

So then why would it matter if someone can "easily practice what is said in the Commandments?"

 

You claim that it's a BIBLE, right?

 

it is a bible, just like the modern bible is a bible, I make no claims about it, it just is - you can debate which myth is correct, the one written closer to jesus's death or the modern one if you want

 

Unsupported.

 

RE: How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?
SUBTOPIC: The Application of moral and ethical values 'vs' the implementation of faith-based imperatives.
⁜→ Capt Nice, chris155au, Jolly Penguin, et al,

BLUF: I think this is mixing the condition of "faith 'v' " • "secularism" • "trust and confidence" • "compliance."

(COMMENT)

With the exception of many that essentially require the population to follow or practice Islam (mandatory compliance) the connection between a deity and a human are a form of individual dedication to a purpose that is deserving veneration. In the case of "Islam," there is often a connection between the societal interpretation of the demands believed to originate from a Supreme Being and the enforcement for a system of order and discipline.

When a society places its trust and confidence in the group logic that supports the civil society, the society establishes its own values that will require enforcement. This is the development of denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.

Hence → the difference between the legal code of laws, including the professional code of eithics created by man --- and the --- sacred scriptures, holy orders, and venerable canons passed down by a faith-based labyrinth originating from a Supreme Being or supernatural power.

This creates an inherent conflict between the "secular" and the "nonsecular" where the bright lines become blurred between faith-based systems and "popular demand."


Most Respectfully,
R

 

you may not want to support it, but back in Jesus's time, it appears they did

 

I must say, I have become very interested in this ancient bible. Any one know any more about it? I read it has the gospel of Barnabas in it. Are there any other texts in there? Or maybe they aren't letting anyone closely examine it because it's so valuable?

 

I enjoyed the Nag Hamadi library and gnostic gospels.

 

Churches do not provide spiritual experiences. They provide emotional experiences and then they TELL YOU it was a spiritual experience.

If you want a truly spiritual experience, sit quietly and completely clear your mind of everything by wearing it down. You have to reach total silence for this so you can experience what remains when your mind is not pestering you with random, spontaneous thoughts. It's a DEADNESS. Then you will discover that you are love.

 

Your claim that it's a "bible" is unsupported.

 

your claim that it's not a bible is unsupported

 

So it's up to me to prove a negative? Oh come on, you're better than that!

 

RE: How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?
SUBTOPIC: Support for the Evidence
⁜→ FreshAir, chris155au, et al,

BLUF: Each person that acquires the material evidence and the contents must determine for themselves.

(COMMENT)
.

✪ One examines all the evidentiary and tangible material under investigation. A hypothesis (X) is developed. A hypothesis is usable only if it can be proven false. This is called being falsifiable. This is the forensic examination on evidence collected in the course of the archeological find.​

✪ The other examines the contents of the find. A hypothesis (Y) is developed. (Consciously or unconsciously, we all consider plausibility in interpreting events.) The hypothesis (initial Post-excavation analysis) developed to suggested a possible explanation for the source of the content as it was found, the meaning of the content, and the potential for use of the content when the content was assembled. Each "possible explanation for the source" is examined individually.​

I think you both have a legitimate approach. These two approaches are individually sound and valid. But neither, in a stand-alone mode, approach answers all the questions about the find.

.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

Can the same thing not be said about all governments and their laws?

Who has conned the public more?

Religious lars or political liars?

Regards
DL

 

Have you ever wondered why that is?

Have you ever wondered why none of the sages or holy men, in those times, never bad mouth slavery?

What advice would you have given to slaves?

Regards
DL

 

The Hebrews plagiarized the 10 Commandments from the Egyptians:

I have not robbed.
I have not coveted.
I have not stolen.
I have not committed wrong-doing against anyone.
I have not done injustice in the place of Truth.
I have not done evil.
I have not debased a god.
I have not done that which the gods abominate.
I have not slandered a servant before his superior.
I have not killed.
I have not commanded to kill.
I have not damaged the offerings to the gods.
I have not copulated in sin.
I have not been lascivious.
I have not taken milk from the mouths of children.
I have not neglected the days concerning their offerings.

 

all bibles are that way, modern or old

 

What do you mean they are "THAT way?"

 

So because they came up with some common rules before the Hebrews, that means that the Hebrews plagiarised them?

 

"I think you both have a legitimate approach." What do you think my approach is?

 

you can't prove any of them true, as they are all middle eastern myths

 

RE: How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?
SUBTOPIC: Support for the Evidence
⁜→ chris155au, FreshAir, et al,

(COMMENT)

FreshAir makes a claim on the Question of the "Finding" being a Bible without adequately distinguishing "any collection of religious documents" which would not qualify as a Bible. This would be a statement that explains the meaning of the word "Bible" that separates it from Scripture, Theology, Patrology, or other Liturgy. That is a very tall order. Your challenge (The chris155au Gauntlet) is a necessary first step (reflecting a contemporary yet distinctive body scholarship). In science, we would simply say: "Define Your Terms."


Most Respectfully,
R

 

Yeah.

The Hebrews were never in Egypt. They always lived in Canaan, but for a time they were under Egyptian suzerainty.

Classical Biblical Hebrew proves it, since CBH is nothing more than the Ugarit dialect of Aramaic without the case endings (nominative, accusative genitive, dative, instrumental, locative, vocative, etc etc.)

Ugarit was so totally thoroughly destroyed, that it was never inhabited again. It's citizens either killed, fled or carted off as slaves.

It would be impossible for Hebrews to come from Egypt to Canaan and then start speaking a language that no one speaks.

I won't even get into the fact that you had bothered to actually study the Exodus Trilogy, you'd know that all the members of the tribes from Judah on down have exclusively Canaanite names, while the members of the tribes of Reuben, Simeon and Levi have exclusively Egyptian names.

Dathan, Korath, Aaron, Phineas, X-Moses, those are all exclusively Egyptian names.

And it is X-Moses. Moses is rendered in Egyptian as m-s-s since the one thing Egyptian and Canaanite had in common was no vowels.

The Egyptian word m-s-s means "emanated from" and it was always prefixed with the name of a deity. No one would be stupid enough to name their son "emanated from." Example:

Ptahmoses: Emanated from Ptah
Rameses: Emanated from Ra
Dedumoses: Emanated from Dedu
Tutmoses: Emanated from Toth (like King Tut)
Anmoses: Emanated from An

Etc etc etc.

That's why no one can find a historical record for "Moses" because no such person ever existed. If we find a copy of the E Text or J Text, we might actually know X-Moses' real name, because the Yahweh fanatics Hilkiah and Jeremiah found the name of the Egyptian deity prefixing X-Moses' real name to be "offensive" and struck it from the texts when they re-wrote them (and they did re-write them.)

In the original story, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain were destroyed because Marduk's son Nabu -- hence Nebuchadnezzar the beloved of Nabu -- had his armies there. Jeremiah and Hilkiah turned it into a morality play.

The Ugarits and Hebrews had the same pantheon:

That pantheon was El, Ba'al, El Elyon, El Berith, El Shaddai, Mot, Yam, Asherah, Dagon, Kothar, Lothan, and Yahweh.

Asherah was Yahweh's wife.

Yam is the sea god, hence Yam Suf, the sea of reeds.

Mot is the god of death, hence the Hebrew mot for death.

Note that El Shaddai was the Akkadian name for the Sumerian god Ninurta.

Have you never read your bible?

Terah is chief priest in the city of Ur for what god?

Yeah, El Shaddai.

Terah leaves with his son Abram/Abraham and daughter Serai/Sarah (they were half-brother and sister doing the nasty) and goes where?

Duh! To Haran in the Hurrian Kingdom.

Now, why would Terah do that?

Well, gosh, Haran was the principle city for the god known in the Hurrian language as Teshub, who was the same as Ninurta/El Shaddai.

Abram/Abraham brought the mytho-historical accounts with him to Canaan written on clay tablets (since Abram was a priest-in-training and knew how to read and write.)

Here's your proof:

Tablet #1
1:1 God created the heavens and the earth.
2:4 When they were created

Tablet #2
5:2 When they were created -- catch-line from #1
6:10 Shem, Ham, and Japheth

Tablet #3
10:1 Shem, Ham, and Japheth -- catch-line from #2
10:32 After the Flood

Tablet #4
11:10 After the Flood -- catch-line from #3
11:26 Abram, Nahor, and Haran

Tablet #5
11:27 Abram, Nahor, and Haran -- catch-line from #4
25:12 Abraham’s son

Tablet #6
25:19 Abraham’s son -- catch-line from #5
36:1 Who is Edom

Tablet #7
36:8 Who is Edom -- catch-line from #6
36:9 Father Edom

Tablet #8
36:43 Father Edom -- catch-line from #7

If you all would actually study the bible you thump so hard, then you'd know:

[1] Was not the dragon vanquished and captured? I did destroy the wriggling serpent, the tyrant with seven heads
[2] For all that you smote Leviathan the slippery serpent, [and] made an end of the wriggling serpent, the tyrant with seven heads

Sound familiar? From the Old Testament?

Nope. Originally it was from an Ugaritic text the Hebrews plagiarized.

Here are the Ugaritic roots plus Hebrew roots and then Hebrew with vowels:

Ugaritic tnn with the Hebrew tnn (tannin) i.e. sea monster
Ugaritic ’qltn with the Hebrew ’qltn (’agallaton) “squirming”
Ugaritic brh with the Hebrew brh (bariakh) usually translated “fast-moving”

If you studied religion in Mesopotamia, you'd know that all cultures, including the Hebrews were polytheistic, worshiping a pantheon of gods (always 12 and always 11 males and 1 female which should be a freaking big ass clue.)

Then like other cultures, the Hebrews shifted to henotheism, where one god in a pantheon is elevated above the others, and for the Hebrews that was Yahweh and that happened right after Ugarit was destroyed.

Then all cultures shifted to monolatry, the worship of one god to the exclusion of all other gods, effectively a "national god."

Sorry, but Judaism is not monotheistic. Islam is monotheistic, but Judaism is not because there are other gods and Yahweh says there are other gods so it cannot be monotheistic.

Monotheism is there is only one god and there were never any other gods at any time ever. That is not Judaism, and by extension, christianity cannot be monotheistic, either.

I can't wait til they find the E Text or J Text, because that will be the end of christianity.

 

They all come from the same source....so the options are limitless.
You surely do not need a church or religion to have such experience.