How's this for a scenario? Trump resigns, and then Pence pardons him!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pollycy, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't he? Listen to him heating up the crowd and enticing it to march on the Capitol. If you're deaf, read the subtitles if you can.
     
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  2. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that after hearing "hang Mike Pence" being chanted by an angry Trump mob storming the capitol, Pence is still sympathetic to the Trump cause. Some people have to learn the hard way.
     
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  3. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I've read everyone else's posts in this thread (which I created), and it seems that we may have several main points-of-view:

    1. Trump feels he has nothing wrong, and therefore needs no "pardon".
    2. Whether he feels any 'guilt' about anything or not, he feels he needs a "pardon" as protection in the future, so he pardons HIMSELF.
    3. He gets on Air Force One, flies to a country that does not have an extradition treaty with the United States, on a quickly put-together 'state-visit', and simply remains there.... (This one popped up in the back of my somewhat beleaguered brain).
    4. He resigns, and Republicans band together around Mike Pence, who, in his capacity as president for less than a handful of days, pardons Trump and perhaps others, too.

    The hallmark of Trump's presidency has been his amazing unpredictability! It has baffled people who voted for him, twice, like I did. And it has confused and perplexed his enemies as well, which, at times, has been tactically useful.

    More of YOUR thoughts...? :confusion:
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
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  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump KNOWS he has committed many crimes. It would be odd that he wouldn't know given that the evidence for many of them is public. But it is difficult to guess what goes on in the mind of a sociopath.

    Yeah. It did fool a lot of people. It's the same trait that made Ted Bundy so difficult to catch and prosecute. I guess being unpredictable is something psychotic people are good at and works in their favor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
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  5. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A pardon isn't judging.

    And there is literally nothing in the constitution to interpret.

    It is a power with no limitations whatsoever as it is written.

    If they do want to stretch for an interpretation they would have to say that's what the founders intended or they would have placed restrictions on it.

    Do you think they just forgot or something?
     
  6. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    In one sense , a pardon is a judgement. In order to accept a pardon, you are admitting the crime for which the pardon applies.
    Trump would have to list the crimes explicitly.

    Do you think his ego would permit that ?
     
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  7. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I don't study people's astrological 'charts' nearly as much as I did in my youth, mainly because I no longer believe in predictive astrology, specifically. But I have seen people observe that Trump is a textbook Gemini! His 'rising sign' is Leo, and his moon is in Sagittarius. He's literally "hither, thither, and yon" -- and nobody knows when, where, or how he'll be on almost anything at any time.

    You may enjoy: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/6f0d9137/files/uploaded/Donald J_MGxlY8IuSuiS7yCuQA0B. Trump.pdf

    There is an odd sort of promiscuity associated with those three main 'chart' features when they appear in unison, and, if so, it has been demonstrated in Trump's political allegiances in the past. He's been a Republican, a Democrat, and member of the Reform Party, back-and-forth. He's been an 'independent variable' in a highly-polarized American political landscape that increasingly demands everything to be 'THIS' way, or 'THAT' way, with damn little room in-between. Unfortunately for him, though, his viewpoint has been, "It's MY way or the highway!" With an attitude like that, it seems inevitable at some point you'll manage to piss everybody off....

    Seeing the world through that 'lens', coupled with a lifetime of immense wealth and having things like he wants them, plus the experience of having all the prerogatives of the most powerful nation in the world for four years may make him think that he can actually pardon himself -- but I genuinely believe that if he acted accordingly, it would prove to be his 'Achilles Heel'. I just can't see the Supreme Court ruling in his favor on that.

    Comments, anyone?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
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  8. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure where you folks got that silly idea from but a pardon is for the purpose of avoiding prosecution or sentencing.

    It has no impact on a persons guilt.
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I am! At the rate 2021 is going we are going to be asking for 2020 back!

    [​IMG]
     
  10. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

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    When you are saying "I cannot be charged for any crime between 2016 and 2020" you are in effect rendering a judgement.

    If Trump does pardon himself, SCOTUS will take up the case. Whether or not Trump wants to gamble with federal prison or trusting Mike Pence to do the pardon is up to Trump.
     
  11. nobodyspecific

    nobodyspecific Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Pollycy Yeah, I can't really see the Supreme Court ruling in favor of self pardoning power. If you dig into it a bit, people at lower levels (governors / mayors) have self pardoned in the past. But typically for low level offenses (stealing a horse, mistaken recording by stenographer, public drunkenness). I'm unaware of any specific cases where they have been challenged. So while its legality is untested, the implications of upholding seems completely incompatible with a rule of law.

    When Trump self pardons (for me it's not a question of if, just when), the DOJ under the new administration will be forced to challenge its legality. Ironically he stands a lower chance of federal legal action without performing such an act.

    I do not believe he is a flight risk at the moment. In his mind, he has done nothing wrong. He is the victim of unfair persecution by the hate group known as the democrats, and the never trumpers. His lifeblood is adulation. It is why he spends so much time watching favorable news coverage, and how he is so easily convinced to believe the same stuff his supports do.

    For him to flee the country, he would need to be convinced that not only is he likely to be prosecuted, but he is likely to lose. I suppose this could be done if the media he consumes turns completely against the justice system. That the SCOTUS members he put on the bench and the other conservatives are traitors and all too happy to lock him up. Then again, they didn't side with him in his election lawsuits, so perhaps he already believes them to be traitors.
     
  12. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, a charge is not an admission of guilt, it is before a trial.

    Nobody is ever found guilty simply because they were charged with a crime.

    We wouldn't need courts then, cops could do it all on the spot.

    So a pardon just stops the process from even getting to a charge. Or if someone is already guilty it releases them from their obligation, it still is not them admitting to anything.

    Pardons have absolutely nothing to do with the facts of any case, it is all procedural.
     
  13. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are forgetting that a pardon is designed specifically to go against the rule of law, not follow it.

    And the reason it's never been challenged is because most people realize it's pointless.

    The Supreme Court has ruled on cases in the past that where the constitution shows no intent that it has been left up to the people to decide such as with slavery.

    The founders simply left it blank because their intent was not to provide an answer.

    So the court would simply tell congress that if they want to define a pardon then they should do that but not retroactively.
     
  14. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Anyone accepting a pardon is admitting they are GUILTY !!!! As per the U.S. Supreme Court !!!!
     
  15. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Why can't the damnocrats wait just 12 days? :furious:
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Even if he had the power to pardon himself (which is questionable), he would be abusing that power. And abuse of power is a form of corruption. Doing so, in and of itself, would constitute a crime. And he could be prosecuted for it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  17. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Why won't Democrats just wait 12 days to get rid of Trump...? You must be kidding!

    This is mega-JUICY stuff, Canell... the golden opportunity of any liberal Democrat's lifetime! And you know what famous Leftists and other America-hating Democrats, Socialists, and others have to say about capitalizing on a nice, big, fat CRISIS!

    [​IMG]. [​IMG]
     
  18. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    Why did Dirty Donnie the Seditionist Superspreader Swamp thing furnish the perfect opportunity to “rub raw the sores of discontent “ ? He’s a criminal and should be punished as an example against future behavior.

    If you want to head this off, why don’t you and your brethren call for him to resign and acknowledge, publicly, the Big Lie that the election was stolen ?
     
  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    He'll be gone at noon on January 20th, and the world will go right on spinning on its axis. If radical Democrats want to claw his guts out after he's just another citizen like the rest of us, then he may, indeed, have to answer charges that may be brought against him. Truth? He has brought this entirely on himself BY himself. Democrats can make an even bigger pile of sh!t out of this thing than it already is if they want to, and now they have the power to do it.... :dead: They can enjoy it, but maybe they shouldn't cum too quick....

    I dunno. I can only say that if (IF) I were a radical Democrat, I'd let this president 'stew in his own juice' for his last ten days and then -- FUGG IT, here comes good, ol' Joe and "Happy Days Are Here Again"! Democrats will fire up the printing presses and send us peasants another couple of grand (or whatever other crumbs they brush off our way), and we'll lap it up off the floor as gleefully as dogs under the government's 'banquet table'.

    In another ten years the Russians, Chinese, and the EU (meaning Germany) will effectively take over the entire Eastern Hemisphere of the world, and the U. S. will be just another turd bobbing around in the big international toilet -- exactly as today's radical Democrats prefer.... So, we may as well all enjoy the forthcoming "Beggars Banquet"!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
  20. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    Ok, we get it, you’re still butt hurt about being conned by Dirty Donnie.

    Try some Nivea cream.
     
  21. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    My only counter would be in how history looks at us. Maybe it's not important; I kind of think it is.

    If it is important to let history know that it's a bad thing to lie about sex in the Oval, to the point where we tell the future what we thought was an impeachable offense....

    How bad does it look for us when we tell them, that what happened this week didn't meet that level?

    Devil's advocate; I've not yet got a strong opinion on this. There's still a few outstanding questions. It's looking more and more like there was inside help. That may tip the scales a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2021
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  22. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    "Butt hurt"...? Are you kidding? First I get a $600 'holiday' present from Uncle Sugar, and next comes good ol' Joe, promising yet another two grand? Where's the "butt hurt" in that? We may as well live it up while the good times are rolling... right?

    I'm grateful to Donald Trump for elevating three (THREE) judges to the positions of Justices on the Supreme Court, but outside of that, he really didn't do anything for me, except to fugg up the interest I should have been earning on my savings accounts, and maybe to keep gazillions of invaders from Central America and Mexico from pouring in here, much as they did under Obama. But, screw it, my Spanish isn't all THAT bad, so when ol' Joe throws open the southern border, it won't matter that much, and we'll all be as happy as pigs in sh!t in our wonderous, new neo-socialist paradise! Comprende?! :banana:
     
  23. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    Si senor. Nivea cream and decaf. Maybe some Tums too, for your sour stomach.

    :banana:
     
  24. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    Why would Pence do this? I know he’s not much of a man but my goodness.

    I can still envision Trump’s demise as similar to Mussolini’s. This insanity isn’t over yet. Buckle in.
     
  25. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Well, it sounds like you know your remedies well. I hope they continue to work for you if you still need them.

    Me? After ol' Joe sticks his right hand in the air on January 20th, all my cares and concerns are finally at an END.

    What the hell... I'll almost certainly be dead before the Russians and Chinese push us so far back into a corner that we can't move (about another ten years), but you might still be very much alive! Better stock up on that Nivea and rolls of Tums after ol' Joe sends you another bushel basket full of unearned, imaginary money....

    Continue with your Spanish lessons, but make a little time to at least be able to read Mandarin Chinese, so you will know what orders you are expected to follow....

    [​IMG]. -- 仔細閱讀您的新工作任務。
     

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