Humor me, what’s wrong with drilling?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Steve N, May 14, 2022.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and hope you find an argument one day :)
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just state the facts, don't need an argument for that, it is what it is
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No you don't .. you make all kinds of opinionated assertions -- as that is what we do here .. now go figure out what an argument is.
     
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  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the facts are, Trump wanted to reduce the supply of oil during Covid to increase the price of oil
     
  5. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This type of logic is exactly why I was reminded of Solzhenitsyn. Easy arguments are abundant. Many of them are false. That's what makes them easy. You don't have to think about them. There's the easy argument that the color of your skin has something to do with your behavior, for example. Easy. Made all the time. Quite false. Easy arguments are usually the result of smashing together two unrelated tidbits of information and drawing a false relationship between them. Skin. Behavior. No relationship. But easy arguments abound.

    Let's look at your assumption about energy use. U.S. uses the most energy "per capita" Why divide energy use by the number of people in a country? Do you actually assume each person uses that much energy? Does it makes sense to divide energy by people and assume that makes it easy to argue the existence of greed? China and India have a whole lot more people. If they use more energy, but less per person, is that an indication that they are using the energy for a better purpose? Cement production, for example is highly energy intensive. U.S. ranks 4th for cement production with 93 million metric tons produced. China is in the lead with 2500 metric tons. Is it evidence of gluttony if the U.S. per capita cement production is higher? We're talking about a ton of CO2 per ton of Cement produced, so...ugh per capita CO2 numbers aren't looking good for China there.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  6. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    It is unwise to underestimate me. Even less wise to insult me.
    I happen in this case to be closely related to a logistics manager.
    And this has nothing to do with what people in rich countries can do to help with their costs of living.

    The general opinion about poor people in the US, according to posts in here, is that they are lazy layabouts who should start to look after themselves. Meanwhile they are the first to get slammed by inflation, more taxes and a sliding economy.
    You worry th at the cost of filling up your tank costs mire. They worry that they can't afford a car and the cost of getting to work on public transport is going up , as is their food, rent, and costs of children.
    Perhaps it is you who should think harder about poverty and stop whingeing.
     
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Nothing accurate in your entire post except for some exceptions. Our society isn't like your exceptions. You have no idea how we live and why we do what we do. Sorry you don't like fish.
     
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  8. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with it? I don't know if that's really the right way to phrase it.

    What are the pros and cons of drilling? They have both.

    I think the real answer here is drilling for more oil isn't going to help because the reason we have a problem with gas prices is we use too much gasoline. Here's an example, Phoenix is one of the MOST spread out cities in the country. I know it's no the biggest by area, but it's by far one of the least dense metro areas. And yet, people there insist on living in one part of the metro, driving an hour to the other for work, play, whatever, and insist on doing in large SUV's many of which don't even get 20 mpg.

    Now you'll talk about freedoms and whatnot and that's fine. They are FREE to make BAD choices. What they aren't free to is to force ALL of society to pay the prices of their bad choices. That is, drilling hurts the environment, it doesn't provide nearly as many jobs as you think it does, and in the long run, it's not sustainable. It would take years for new wells to have any economic impact and by then, who knows what the economy will be like. Further, the oil industry itself doesn't want to drill because investors are tired of the old boom and bust model. They want what all investors want, consistent returns.

    So the bottom line is there's no point to it. We need to diversity how we fuel our personal transportation. Will everyone need/have to have an electric vehicle? No, but the right answer to lowering the cost of gas is to lower demand. If I lived in Phoenix, I wouldn't drive a suburban because that's a stupid choice. And if I did, I wouldn't whine about it as if it's someone else's problem to solve. And I'm not picking on Phoenix, this same version of stupid choices plays out all of this country in various forms when it comes to cars and energy as a whole.
     
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  9. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't underestimate me. I know people that know things... That might be the funniest resume I've heard all day. Was it your close relations that told you it might be a good idea if more people starved to death?

    Here's my resume: I train people who have had their entry level jobs replaced with automation how to design, operate, and maintain automated systems. I've made a career out of analyzing and simplifying broken complex systems so that they can be repaired or redesigned to become functional. Instead of "learn to code" my strategy to improve society has been "teach to automate." Local manufacturing, local production, and local automation require local energy. If I'm going to help people climb out of poverty, then I need energy to help in that process. Automation requires energy in controlled amounts, for controlled durations, in a controlled sequence. Through the automation of complex tasks we expand everyone's access to goods and services. Not just rich people. Not just Americans. Everyone has better access to the stuff society needs to produce food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, transportation, communication, education. All the benefits of advanced society; longer life span, mitigation of disease & suffering require the expenditure of energy. Automation produces an economization of the use of this energy. Use a lot of energy, produce even more. Improve the lives or more people. This is what is possible.

    Nobody is whingeing (sic). I'm telling you you're wrong about your analysis of the problem. You said "Why can't you just do what everyone else is doing and use your cars less often?" I'm telling you that if you think the problem is that people drive cars too much, or eat too much, then you clearly don't understand the problem. Your advice to me is go Galt, but you have no idea how much productivity disappears if I actually decide to do that. Same thing happened to Russia when they told the Kulaks to go Galt. The people who made the food were stopped from being "greedy," and surprise, surprise people starved.
     
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  10. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Interesting debates across the spectrum of opinions. Automation and efficiency meets more modest, realistic living. Is it possible?
     
  11. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm reminded of I, Pencil. People don't know or care how the sausage is made. But they're quite confident in their assertion that it's being made wrong and if the sausage makers would just listen to them the world would be a much better place to live in.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you keep repeating this .. over 5 times now ... as if you have a point .. or have made an argument.. What part of - we both agree that Trump wanted to increase the price of oil during covid .. do you not understand ?
     
  13. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fuel costs doubled, but don't worry. Aunt Jen will just take half as many trips to dialysis and the planet will be saved.
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    cause it's true, that is what happened, we have the tweets to prove it - I post it in every new thread created about this topic, question is, why so many threads on this topic

    we both know the real reason gas prices are high is other countries have reduced supply
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup .. the Sun comes up in the East .. and have pictures to prove it. .. its true.. and some folks tweet about it .. :deadhorse::bonk:
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    well you got me there, just cause Trump tweeted it, doesn't mean it was true
     
  17. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Taking critical medical patients to the hospital by helicopter is so gluttonous. Thank God fuel is so scarce we have to go back to bringing them by horse and carriage. So green.
     
  18. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's a shame there's a baby food shortage, but really babys should probably eat less. The plus side to fewer trucks bringing raw materials to manufacturers is that there are fewer trucks distributing food to babys.

    Twice the fewer trucks. Thin babys. Win win win.
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's true ? .. no clue what you are referring to - talking meaningless gibberish again .. random statements with no point.
     
  20. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know, it may cost Grandma three times what she makes in her social security check to fill her home heating tank this winter, but we all need to do our part to make sure the Earth stays nice and cold.
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the tweets, did you forget what you posted?
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't post any tweets from Trump .. did you forget who you were talking to :)
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did, that was what we were discussing, what tweets were you talking about if not Trumps?
     
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I remember about 15 years ago corresponding with a friend in the Netherlands. He told me gasoline was $8 per gallon at the pump there. Do you think that was a supply problem or a government problem? Supply and demand work out naturally when there are no other external influences. The price hike in the U.S. results from limited supply. The limited supply results from government going to war with the petroleum industry in order to put gasoline powered cars in their graves. You voted for it. You got it.
     
  25. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know you've grown accustomed to the wasteful practice of pushing clean, treated water up to the 20th floor of your East Harlem public housing complex, but what you don't understand is that millions of people in the ROW get their water directly from the sacred, garbage and sewage filled ganges. All I'm saying is that it wouldn't hurt you to hoof it down to the east river with a bucket, fatty.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
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