I believe I am now fully Pro-Life.

No! I'm not violent. I'm too passive, if anything. I do anticipate that a latter day John Brown might go off the rails if he found about abortions occurring "legally" and willy nilly at, say 34 weeks w/o medical justification, or with the heads of babies protruding from the birth canal. For some, that's still a "my body, my right" scenario. I didn't anticipate that that scenario would ever present itself, but now you're telling me about 7 or 8 states with no cutoff, and it depresses and worries me mightily. But if I were on a jury and the state proved beyond reasonable doubt that this Joe Brown did something violent in order to protest, I'd have no problem finding him guilty. We can't any of us pick and choose which laws we obey, unless we revolt. I am not a revolutionary.

No, I did not.

Thanks.

"Live with"?"

I couldn't ever be happy about a legal regime permitting, much less providing government funds for, 3rd trimester abortions, absent extraordinary circumstances. I don't know what you mean by "couldn't live with." I've been unhappily living with Roe v. Wade since 1973. But see, unlike a leftist, I, like Socrates after hearing the pronouncement of his death sentence, do not believe that laws and decisions that I personally disagree with are invalid. If the collective wisdom of a given state says we should, indeed we must, countenance and in some cases pay for later term abortions, I would beg them to reconsider and possibly run for office myself and get, oh, about 1 vote. Or I'd move to another state or country, perhaps. Or I'd march without one of those annoying bullhorns to show solidarity with the aborted and about to be aborted babies. But that's about it.

 

1) I mistook your previous reference to John Brown, as a suggestion that you could imagine yourself, or someone like you, as a modern day version:

Le Chef said: ↑
I don't disagree with anything you said. It's a tough ethical, conceptual and legal problem for all but the absolutists on either extreme...

If post-viability outside the womb is the test, then fine. But what if the legislature legalizes it, even subsidizes it, until 39.5 weeks? That is really murder, in my view, and we may get into a John Brown situation. Brown was the leading exponent of violence in the American abolitionist movement:[6]: 426  he believed that violence was necessary to end American slavery, since decades of peaceful efforts had failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
[End]

I would consider my mistake understandable-- but then, I am one of those unSocratic leftists.
2) What's up with that remark? In the same answer in which you talk about your fear of someone-- obviously, on the Right-- taking the law into his own hands, and reacting with violence against abortion clinics-- which would not be the first time this happened, BTW-- you suggest that it is people on the Left, writ large, who do not accept the law. Do you not recognize how hypocritically partisan a comment, that is? And had you not heard of all those on the Right who had stormed the U.S. Capitol, or who are currently making preparations and, in some cases, essentially even promises, to throw out election results, if Trump doesn't win their state, in 2024? But Republicans are all law abiding, defeat- accepting, cool- headed logicians? I cannot even LOL at such a ludicrous suggestion, as yours, as I am too disappointed that I will apparently not be able to have a reasonable discussion with you, without being subject to such baselessly silly & irrational, nevertheless insultingly prejudicial (& gratuitously so) characterizations.

 

The main problem I have with your stance is the simple fact that you will never, ever have to make the actual decision on abortion. You
sit on the sidelines and decide for other people. Each woman is an individual, yet you disregard every aspect of their lives - their health,
their fears, their pains - and you pare them down to an incubator whose sole purpose is to carry a fertilized egg to term - so your opinion
means little - as mine would. Each woman has to be judged and treated as an individual - end of story.

 

Insulting? You accuse me of having views based in science fiction and now ...

You're right, we cannot have a reasonable discussion because you mischaracterize what I write and insult me in the process. I do not deserve this disrespect.

 

Exactly. Anti abortion folks like the OP has never faced this decision and will never ever be in a position to face this decision. Yet here they are demanding every Women in the Country to be reduced down to a baby making factory cause it makes them feel better.

****ing pathetic.

 

So their banning all types of contraceptives too. Damn it all!!!!

 

Funny how they want a fetus to have more rights than anyone else on earth....

 

You address neither of the OP's central points: it is human, and it is alive.

 

No, THEY'RE not banning contraceptives...where did you get that weird idea?

However, NO ONE is obligated to use contraceptives.

 

Until that fetus is born. Then the right says **** that baby.

 

And I've never seen anyone say anything different...


But just because a fetus is human and alive doesn't mean it should have more rights than born humans who are alive.

 

My sperm is technically alive as well. Do you wanna throw me in prison for fapping in a tissue?

 

YUP, and the OP wants BORN children to live through hell ..

 

I know their not It would seem some are simply not intelligent to use them

 

Well, what's the end game? Controlling women again.

 

They don't want that Child to learn CRT, but are fine with that Child learning active shooter drills.

 

Actually, I think it's the best place for it!

 

Yes. Almost an exact quote.

One either sees the fetus as solely a part of the woman, an appendix if you will, or as a separate organism with its own heart, lungs, and brain.

If you accept the latter, then you cannot but feel queasy at the mere idea of abortion.

"Why so queasy? Is it any different from removing a wisdom tooth or gall bladder?"

Yes, it is.

Now, if one don't at least feel queasy, then there is something sociopathic afoot.

 

My opinions on how abortion makes me feel is irrelevant though. I do not support abortion as a form of birth control, but I definitely do not support banning abortion and removing a Women's right to choose what is best for her.

 

Maybe ... if the only goal of the debate is a policy outcome that vindicates the woman's right to choose, and nothing else, then your unease is irrelevant.

But if we are trying to determine whether there is something just wrong about abortion, something that made even Democrats claim a few years ago that it should be "safe, legal and rare" -- why "rare" if there is absolutely nothing wrong with it? --whether it should at least be discouraged, especially at 8.5 months, for example, your feelings are worth examining.

 

Here's a phrase that you may recognize: Fake News! Care to explain how I "mischaracterize what (you) write," as well as how I insult you, in the process? Or do you just like to throw out bogus allegations? I have no idea what you mean by either of those charges, which you dash off in such a brief & unexplained manner. Notice that I showed you the respect of well- explaining myself. You said that YOU would consider some abortion laws MURDER, and then immediately began talking about John Brown and the justification of violence, in fighting things that are morally wrong. I hardly think it is fair to fault me for getting the wrong idea.

And you complain about my saying your views seemed unduly influenced by science fiction-- when you were talking about FULL GESTATION OF A FETUS, WITHOUT NEED OF A HUMAN WOMB! FYI, that IS science fiction. I explained, clearly (as is my aim) that in 50 years, the absolute earliest our science has been able to move back the survivability line for a fetus, has been two weeks; and, still, the vast majority of fetuses, at that point, will NOT live, but the few who do, will almost certainly have serious developmental disabilities. Yet you still do not concur that your worrying about fully automated gestation, is a bit premature? I had honestly not felt, under the circumstances, that I was saying anything insulting, but something that you would recognize, yourself. Hence, I had made my comment in a good-natured way, at least to my thinking, and from the icon you picked to go along with your "thanks," my impression had been that you had taken my comment in that spirit. Despite that I am expecting an insult, about how I write too much, I think the evidence here is conclusive that I have gone to all reasonable lengths to make my meanings clear, and that any misunderstandings have proceeded from your own, over conciseness.

 

Don't forget about the Left's take on "Rights" when it comes to many other issues.

Have Democrats abandoned the 'my body, my choice' argument?


It's almost like they're only about individual "Rights" when it comes to the issue of Abortion.

 

Hey your beginning to understand that different things are different.

 

That could just be an easy vague excuse to deny logical inconsistencies in belief.

 

It could be, but someone would have to prove that to be the case; your off- the - cuff remark, certainly did no such thing.