"I Didn't Serve, I Was Used": How Veterans Are Losing the War at Home

Discussion in 'Veterans' started by Pax Aeon, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine, a Vietnam vet, told me about a veteran of the Iraq War who, when some civilian said, "Thank you for your service," replied: "I didn't serve, I was used." That got me thinking about the many ways today's veterans are used, conned, and exploited by big gamers right here at home.Near the end of his invaluable book cataloguing the long, slow disaster of America's War for the Greater Middle East, historian Andrew Bacevich writes:

    "Some individuals and institutions actually benefit from an armed conflict that drags on and on. Those benefits are immediate and tangible. They come in the form of profits, jobs, and campaign contributions. For the military-industrial complex and its beneficiaries, perpetual war is not necessarily bad news."

    Bacevich is certainly right about war profiteers, but I believe we haven't yet fully wrapped our minds around what that truly means. This is what we have yet to take in: today, the U.S. is the most unequal country in the developed world, and the wealth of the plutocrats on top is now so great that, when they invest it in politics, it's likely that no elected government can stop them or the lucrative wars and "free markets" they exploit
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    Now that the democratic party has fully transformed into a war promotion machine, just like the republicans, the blood loving war mongers (Obama/Hillary) are pushing for increased ground action in areas of the middle east, where the only victor will be the oil and arms cartels. Aside from more US casualties, this will produce more Veterans, who have been tricked and lied to as the true nature of what they are fighting for; someone else's profits. The VA system is corrupt to the core and poorly serving the current Vets.
     
  2. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    i must have posted my thread in the wrong section, but this was my response to that article.

     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Democrats didn't start the fire in the Middle East.
     
  4. Flare

    Flare Banned

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    Ken O’Keefe’ "My voyage from US marine Gulf War veteran to human rights activist"

    [video=youtube;J7mYrBdrUqA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7mYrBdrUqA[/video]
     
  5. charleslb

    charleslb New Member

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  6. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    When they walk through that recruiting office door to sign up, that's the risk they take.
    I thought of joining the Army in my teens but gave up on the idea because I knew I'd never be able to take orders I didn't agree with, and I didn't fancy being sent to fight wars I might not believe in.
     
  7. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hi Pax :wink:

    I spotted this today because Johnny Brady bumped it, so I thought I would comment. It's a subject in which I have some skin in the game, as my son is a Purple Heart veteran of Iraq, and he has also deployed to Afghanistan twice.

    You wrote this before the election. I don't know about you, but up until election night, I thought Clinton would win. And I was very concerned about the issue of war and peace with her as our president, and I agree completely with you that the Dems had turned into a war machine under her and Obama. I believe she is even more hawkish than Obama and by far less responsible. I am somewhat reassured by the election of Trump. I hope I am correct in my assessment that he is less interested in endless war and much more interested in pursuing his domestic agenda.

    He is going to have to make a decision about the war against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Either we stay the course, or we end this quickly. If we stay the course, that means we continue an air campaign while helping indigenous militias and armies take ground away from ISIS. The upside to that course is the low number of casualties we take in the process, and that is a big upside. The downside is that it is slooooooow, and it will commit us to this struggle for a long time to come. The alternative is an American-led ground invasion where we destroy ISIS. This would be quick, although we would have to accept that there would be casualties. We could probably sweep into Iraq and Syria from a staging point in Jordan or Turkey or both and destroy the ISIS "caliphate" in a matter of a few months. I am quite certain that neither Trump or the American people are interested in "nation building" afterward - the lesson of Iraq having been learned. My hunch is that Trump would want to withdraw after the victory as quickly as we went in, leaving governance up to the Syrians and Iraqis. This action would not solve Syria and Iraq's internal problems, but it would destroy our enemy and get us out quickly. We could then put our focus on our domestic agenda and pretty much stay at peace. The low-grade war against AQ and their allies in Afghanistan and in other parts the world would continue, but that is mostly just a policing action, using air power and occasional Special Ops raids.

    So it remains to be seen which option he chooses, but my hunch is that he is not going to want this war hanging over his head for years to come.

    As for the VA, I am wondering if the VA medical system ought to be converted from a medical system to more of an insurance system. What I envision is veterans being able to seek care for service-connected injuries and illnesses at any medical facility of their choice, with the VA simply paying for it. Or a combination of the two which would reduce the load on the VA hospitals. If veterans preferred the VA hospitals, they could use them. Keep in mind that some veterans report getting good care from the VA. My son has had some frustrations with the VA but at other times received very good support from the VA. Sort of a mixed bag with him. He, like many vets, has to drive much further to get treated by the VA, rather than just being able to be seen by local physicians. On the other hand, VA clinicians have a lot of experience in treating combat and service-related injuries. This is their area of expertise, so that's a big plus on their side.

    Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving Day.

    My two cents ... :oldman:
     
  8. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More or less, but there have been instances in which places like MCRDPI had to clean out several DI's for things like slamming recruits heads into door frames, making them masturbate while being filmed, etc. For some, if you don't drive people out, then you are not doing your job. Fairly sure some of their victims got more than they bargained for.

    That said, I completely disagree with the OP's world view on this. People having regrets happen in most every profession/job, and in most every profession/job, there are loudmouths who think they know better than every single person above them. It is human nature, not the nature of military service.
     
  9. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Maybe some recruits were treated bad to make them quit the service because the DI's knew they'd make poor untrustworthy servicemen and would likely get their buddies killed in the field?

    "I want your DOR boy!"
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And maybe they were bullies with small"................egos
     
  11. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Originally Posted by Johnny Brady: Maybe some recruits were treated bad to make them quit the service because the DI's knew they'd make poor untrustworthy servicemen and would likely get their buddies killed in the field?
    Yeah, perhaps the top brass deliberately choose bullies as DI's to weed out the unsuitable recruits, it sounds harsh but necessary.
    Anyway, my reading is that if a recruit looks like he might make a good soldier, the DI's will cut him some slack because they don't want to lose him.
     
  12. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since the Marine Corps owned up to the abuses during the investigation and replaced the PI DI's at issue, I think it went far beyond culling the weak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forcing someone to jerk off while being filmed makes one a better Marine how exactly?
     
  13. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    1- looks like the brass replaced the DI's to cover their own asses.
    2- it's all good boyish fun..:)

    PS- As a - ahem- trophy-winning computer wargame champion on the human-vs-human Armed Assault III servers, I know full well how a few sloppy unmotivated individuals in your squad can mess up everything real bad and are as welcome as a fart in a phonebox..;)
     
  14. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty much anti-war except if it follows the principles of a Just War. Even if it doesn't, it does not diminish the respect I have for war veterans who have honored the oath they took to serve in the US military. To this extent, I am very much against the way our country has and continues to treat Vets, especially when providing them health care.
     
  15. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Here in Britain, our lefties disrespect vets AND serving personnel, they're currently demanding some of our troops be investigated for possible war crimes that allegedly occurred years ago in Iraq/Afgh.
    One Royal Marine Sergeant has actually been jailed for allegedly shooting an insurgent "without good cause"!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/sergeant_alexander_blackman/index.html

    At least now you've now got a President who respects the US military..:)

    [​IMG]


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  16. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you know that slamming people's heads into a door frame is a criminal offense as well? PI had a DI culture that San Diego did not, now it doesn't. I suppose one could call that covering their ass, or one could call it focusing on achieving one's primary mission to Make Marines depending on one's perspective. After all, that is what the big old signs say and we wouldn't want them to get accused of false advertising or nuthin.
     
  17. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    If it encourages people to DOR who aren't making the grade, good!
    It'd be criminal to cut them slack and let them get posted to the front line and get their mates killed through their sloppiness..:)
     
  18. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a presumptuous "If" when it came to MCRDPI, but hey even those free haircuts aren't free, so it is all good. It has only been like a generation since they drowned a half-dozen recruits so they are entitled to latitude :salute:
     

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