How can this 'unborn fetus' be a victim of crime, if it's not a person? Armchairs aren't victims of crime, when 'killed'. Please tell us the difference.
Sure, and I already stated I agree that this would be a case of compassionate killing, and that I support it in this case. It is still killing though. Killing means ending the life of something through your actions, which this is. Yes. Small government isn't a universal goal for them apparently. They also support massive government spending on your ridiculously overblown military. For this party, taxes are ok to blow up people overseas, but not ok to make sure your own people have proper affordable health care apparently. And before anybody accuses me of saying the US military shouldn't be big, that's not what I am saying. I'm saying it is way bigger than it needs to be to still be dominant.
Agreed on both counts. On the abortion issue I would point out that the woman is the one who, with her doctor, knows the medical situation with the fetus and with herself. And it is clear that Americans do not share philosophy on what a fetus is. There are women who sacrifice their own lives by refusing treatment in order to give their fetus better odds of survival. And, there are those who clearly do not see it that way at all. Having that decision made by legislatures and prosecutors is just not acceptable.
The fetus has no skull. It’s Schrödinger's baby, both dead and not dead at the same time. Have you met a human walking around without a skull ?
The discussion of this particular incident is ridiculous on the face of it. There is already an exemption in the law to allow an abortion in this case. A bunch of dummies at the hospital couldn't pick up a phone and check on the legality of this 100% fatal issue. That's the story. The lawmakers found about about this through the press and called the hospital THEMSELVES to clear it up.
FoxHastings said: ↑ It isn't...it's gets the perp a harsher sentence due to the UVVA (Unborn Victims of Violence Act)...and no matter what they call it it does NOT turn a fetus into a legal person...it does NOT have that power.....and even has a clause saying it cannot affect abortion .. Why are you asking me? I didn't write the law....did you think I did? Ask the people who wrote the law...duh OMYGAWD!....you think armchairs can be killed ? !!! And who is this "us" you speak of....are you more than one person? And if you really don't know the difference between an armchair and humans I don't think an explanation would help you.
I am not totally against abortions, I am not totally for them either. It's not a black or white thing. I agree that simply referring to abortions as 'killing' is diminishing the painful choices that some women have to make. According to the definition of 'killing', abortions do deprive the fetus of life, so yes it is 'killing'. Framing abortion as 'killing' though just causes people to retreat further into their political ideologies. I think in the case of the woman, one should acknowledge that abortion was a justified end to biological life under her circumstances and to frame it as 'killing' is harsh and inappropriate because there is so much more involved. Through no fault of her own this woman had a fetus inside her that was going to die. I can't imagine how she felt after the ultrasound, and then having to wait to get an abortion in another state six weeks later. Would you walk up to her and say 'you just chose to kill your fetus'? There are people out there who would hold placards up accusing her of murder if she was seen going into an abortion clinic. They know nothing about her or her circumstances. Most people who knew her circumstances wouldn't resort to that kind of torment, they would say 'I'm sorry you lost your baby, what a horrible choice you were forced to make'. Treating women with kindness, decency, and respect is called for in this kind of situation and many other situations involving abortion. Using the term 'killing' adds a whole negative connotation which is unfair to a woman in this kind of situation. It's obvious on this thread, that to some, abortion is something where individual circumstances means nothing. What this woman had to go through was no doubt traumatic. She lost her baby through a rare condition. Often, the human body takes care of fetuses that won't survive by causing a spontaneous abortion and even this is extremely traumatic. When a fetus is non-viable and you have to either decide to abort or endure an entire pregnancy, how traumatic do you think that would be? Referring to the decisions this woman had to make and the trauma she had to endure and labelling it as 'killing' the fetus is harsh and doesn't take anything else into account. It's simply diminishes the woman's situation to 'killing'. 'Killing' might fit the definition that this woman is 'killing' or ending the life of the fetus but it is much much more than fitting it into that simple definition. I don't know if you are a parent but words and context do matter. You said 'killing means ending the life through your actions'. To be totally and ridiculously extreme, as a parent, welcoming a new baby into the world, how would you feel if somebody said 'through your actions of having this child, you have sentenced it to death'. According to the definition that was given, through the actions of two people creating a child, they have ensured an end of that life because life always ends in death. How callous would it be to ruin the joy of a new baby by somebody saying congratulations you just ensured the death of your own child. Well, it's true life always ends in death so people who create life are ensuring the death of another human being. Nobody would say such an appalling thing, the situation is one of congratulations, wishes for the best, the excitement of welcoming a new life. Birth is so much more than the inevitable death of that baby and abortion is so much more than the 'killing' of a fetus. Like I said a very extreme example but I hope the point is made. In the context of what this woman went through, just to call it 'killing' because that is what it is, is as stated above -- appalling. In her case her choice was justified and understandable. There are cases where to accuse a woman of 'killing' the fetus would probably be justified but not in this case. It's all about context and not just the dumbing it down to the act of 'killing'.
Denying it is it killing diminishes the importance of the life being ended. You admit it is killing. Others here denied it, hence the conversation above. In her particular case I agree, but we have also been talking generally in regard to abortion. No, I wouldn't. But I also wouldn't deny that's happening. It isn't all that's happening, but but is happening. In her case she has justification for it. In other cases it's more questionable. People should always be treated with kindness, decency and respect. And that should include everyone, and pro-life folks consider the fetus himself or herself and those who don't want him or her killed to be part of that. If somebody killed somebody you care about and then they demanded it is not killing, would that not offend you? How would you feel if they walk up to you and say your loved one was not killed, and their death was just a choice the person who ended their life made, and isn't anyone else's business?
Who has denied that abortion is "killing" ? I ask because I have never seen anyone deny abortion is killing the fetus. That's not the topic. To whom? You? So what...it's up to the doctors and the woman involved.....are you saying all doctors and all women lie? The fetus WAS treated with kindness, decency and respect. It would have been indecent, unkind and disrespectful to bring the poor thing into the world to die a painful death....something Anti-Choicers WANT. That has nothing to do with the topic and once again, no one said killing a fetus isn't killing.....why do you insist they do ?? Is it just to make some kind of point based on nothing ??
... Which only makes sense if you see the unborn as not a person (which you do but others disagree), or think it's ok for the ones who kill somebody to be the ones who decide if it's acceptable to society for that killing to happen. No. All of society should care, and should make that moral judgment as well. In the OP case it is clearly a justified killing, and even a mercy killing. But that isn't so clear in other cases of abortion. And again, of course, if you don't think the fetus should be considered a person and don't want to consider it having any rights or ethical consideration, then the whole point is moot. But that's you, not everyone.
Complete sentence ,""To whom? You? So what...it's up to the doctors and the woman involved.....are you saying all doctors and all women lie?""
