I just emailed my religious vaccination exemption request to the U.S Department of State. Thoughts?

If a vaxed person can be "harmed" by an un-vaxed person then your precious vaccine doesn't work. It's no wonder the vax fervor smacks more of authoritarian control than concern for public health.

 

Do they have an official form to fill out, or did you basically just send them a message? We sometimes contract with fedgov and I'll likely need to obtain an exemption as well. One of the city's we contract with has already passed their 'get vax by' date without providing the associated attestation form, which presumably will include the process to apply for an exemption since most of that city's public unions have already negotiated that religious exemptions must be 'reasonably accomodated'. It would seem they're having difficulty determining how best to handle this within the bureaucracy. ...or maybe they're just hoping the confusion will eventually result in everyone applying for one getting fired while they neglect to create an official process for it.

 

I'm pretty dang sure the communication is clear:

Vaccination, masks, social distancing, stay healthy.

The catch is that people refuse to listen.

I agree with your point that our population tends to be overweight. But, the difference there is that there are various reasons for obesity and that is not something that impacts the health of someone else.

One part that is NOT communicated well is that the symptoms of COVID can last for months beyond recovery of the initial symptoms.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/index.html

So, people think they can rely on hospitals to keep them alive and then be back to normal.

 

OK, here's the deal. Vaccines are NOT PERFECT. NO medication is perfect. Natural immunity is very much NOT perfect. In fact, it DEPENDS on failure, obviously.

What vaccines do is dramatically reduce risk of getting COVID, of giving COVID to others, and of requiring hospitalization or dying.

Beyond that, there realy are NO medications that are perfect, so do NOT think this "not perfect" thing is somehting specific to COVID vaccines.

The "I'm not doing it, because it isn't perfect" idea is just plain STUPID. Noboy has EVER claimed ANY medicine or medical procedure is perfect.

 

Your reading comprehension sucks rocks. Go back and re-read what I posted. Do you see a reference to perfection anywhere?

 

One fundamental problem has to do with how government can determine whether your religious claims are legitimate.

The constitution implies that government can't do that.

IMHO, an applicant's medical records need to be obtained. If those medical records show that the individual has acceped western medical science then they should get no exemption.

Right now, people ARE claiming that their god hates one vaccine, but not others - LOL!!

 

Yes. You said "then your precious vaccine doesn't work."

Think that through. That, in the context, is a statement that it would have to be perfect.

 

You'll be denied.

1. You posted online that you are playing a game.
2. Your explanation sounds exactly like a political belief - not a religious one.

Would complying with the COVID-19 vaccination requirement substantially burden your religious exercise? If so, please explain how.

Yes and God has told me not to reveal the particulars of my beliefs to non-believers.

Simple, to the point, and leaving very little for them to argue with.

 

LOL

One could use that excuse against a large percent of the laws on the books.

My god said I have to do Friday naked pig roasts in my front yard.

My god said I have to use large speakers to blanket my neighborhood with the Gospel of the Canaanites.

My god said I should never accommodate the demands of government, including everything from taxes to police.

There is a social contract that people (citizens or not) agree to when they choose to live in the USA.

 

Which religion do you belong to?
I heard that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones who flatly refuse any vaccination.

 

In the U.S., you don't need to be a member of a group to have sincere religious beliefs just as protected as the RCC.

 

They don't. The orthodox doctrine of all organized religions in the US promote vaccination in the interest of public health. Which means the exemption exists as an individual religious choice for anyone, not just certain religions. Otherwise there wouldn't be any religious exemption at all.

 

BTW, Islam forbids vaccination during the month of Ramadan.

 

A 1 month wait is not really the issue with vaccination today.

Besides, Islam allows the consideration of the situation when determining whether to follow a religious proscription such as this.

Not all people are sufficiently healthy to do the full amount of fasting, for example.

 

LOL. Yeh, the wrong masks in the wrong places, the wrong vaccine for the wrong people, etc. The message is clear—the health of the individual nor the health of society have been the priority.

Oh, you couldn’t be more wrong about the part I bolded. Obesity most certainly impacts the health of others. That’s why I bring it up in these discussions!

We know from a plethora of studies on influenza obese individuals are more of a contagion threat than normal weight individuals.

More on influenza.
https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/218/9/1378/5051913

Obesity makes an individual more likely to spread skin infections like staph.
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/3/suppl_1/294/2636326

Obesity increases the likelihood of causing a vehicle accident.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...s-It-Driving-Us.pdf?origin=publication_detail

We could go on for pages on how obesity increases auto accidents.

Obesity is responsible for increased rates of workplace injuries. This hurts employers by reducing productivity and harms us alleconomically through higher disability and insurance costs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5259819/

Just one example for diabetes that of course is primarily a lifestyle disease as well and linked to obesity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217477/

Now, some information on one of the worst effects obesity has on others.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/11/5/obesity-obese-people-social/

If you note the date of the link, it is from 2010. Notice the projection in bold. Guess what the obesity rate is today in the US? About 42.5%!

Here is another study.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsa066082

Do you want to present evidence for your claim that obesity doesn’t affect others?

So this information isn’t being communicated but you just linked to the CDC communicating it? Interesting. Here are some media stories “communicating” it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...tients-suffer-1-or-more-long-term-effects.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/health/Covid-survivors-longterm.amp.html

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210609-how-long-will-long-covid-last

LOL. Where do you come up with the idea it’s not communicated? I’ve been discussing the subject on PF with another member for over a year! And I’ve been pointing out this is not unique to Covid. It’s what viruses do. But you aren’t told that.

But I am pretty confident you won’t find the information I’ve presented above from any of these sources.

Again we see the most authoritarian are often the least informed on the things they wish to force on others. Thanks for helping me demonstrate this once again.

 

I find it interesting the people who wish to force mitigation on others for Covid don’t even have enough understanding of virology or epidemiology to make good decisions for protecting themselves. Yet they think they know what’s best for others.

 

Abject nonsense.

Your obesity doesn't affect me.

Your failure to defend against COVID DOES affect me.

THAT is the issue.

Beyond that, your focus on obesity is an abject failure in this argument for the two reasons I stated: it doesn't affect me; there isn't a law or regulation that would be effective, as there are many reasons for obesity that do not have a "solution".

 

Nope. Fact. You were told to wear inferior masks. People are being denied a passive vaccine. You have offered an appeal to the stone fallacy.

Because I’m not obese. Obese people do affect you and others. As I’ve offered ample evidence. What do we have from you? The usual unsubstantiated opinion.

I’ve failed to defend against Covid? How?

Only to the uninformed and the deniers of science which you have joined the ranks of.

Obesity is itself contagious. Yes there are other reasons. But it’s really an energy in vs energy out situation. Plain physics which you probably deny as a science denier.

Obesity does affect others. I’ve shown the evidence. You can not back up your incorrect opinion. Again. At least you are consistent in that regard.

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Yes, in the U.S. we have social contract. Have you ever bothered to read it?

Overcoming a religious exemption requires the state to present clear an undeniable evidence of present danger requiring the action to be done. No state has been willing to even have an evidentiary hearing over the vaccine to get the ball rolling. Not having the vaccine does not, in any way, cause danger to anyone else. That's a legal fact. Otherwise, all religious exemptions could be overcome.

All the other things you mentioned directly infringe on the rights of others except for the naked thing which you might be surprised about the court rulings for.

The Justices supporting the mandate have used the Japanese internment and forced sterilizations in the past to support their current decisions. Do you support the Japanese internment and forced sterilizations?

 

I fully stand by what I said.

NOTHING about what I've said suggests that I think the obesity rate isn't high.

Anything that compromises one's health makes disease and transmission of diesase more likely.

What is STUPID is suggesting that we can write laws to end obesity.

And, this thread IS about legal action required to fight a pandemic.

So, sorry - you just didn't even figure out what the threat is about.

YOU may communicate it. I may communicate it. How many tens of millions of followers do YOU have? The CDC may point it out on its web site. But, the denier population doesn't go there, either.

So, BFD!!

My point is that news outlets, social media, statements by elected officials and the rest of the methods of communicating to the population are not pointing this out.

They ARE treating it as if once you survive, all is OK.

They are NOT pointing out that there are serious long term consequences besides dying. So, for example, gauging ones risk by looking at the death rate is stupid. Yet, I keep hearing how the death rate is low, so why worry.

 

Your predicate here, the one that you claim is a "legal fact" is a scientifically proven falsehood.

So, game over for your lame excuse.

Oh, good LORD! Let's keep this about THIS universe.

 

There have been HUGE numbers of statements regarding what comprises a good mask.

Going back to a year and half ago is a PATHETIC case of avoidance of the truth.

We have NO solution to mandate concerning obesity.

With COVID, we do.

Your silly nonsense about obesity is DOA even just for THAT reason.

I thought you might understand that English construct - my statement points out that what one person does wrt COVID absolutely does affect others. What YOU do affects ME. If you help defend against this pandemic, it helps me. If not, then you are making things worse for me - and by extension for the rest of the entire world.

 

I belong to the religion of Liberty of the Individual.

No games are being played here. I am exempt as a [...] and while you may draw political implications or conceptualize political beliefs to be similar in ways of ideology to those of theological ones, I beg to differ. Who is to say that strict, uncompromising spiritual adherence to a theology is any different than strict adherence to one of an ideological nature? Now we are on the territory of philosophy and semantics, and so far I am the one who is gaining ground, not the Federal Government. As I said before, I have been spared the stresses and obligations through attesting that my adherence to Liberty of the Individual prevents compliance, as stated in my email to a .gov address.

I may share the paperwork to you through private message. Message me soon, but know that all religious exemptions were required by October 18th. I'll help you where I can. The Feds want the economy to work so this executive order is deteriorating by each passing day and it will change soon. They went for 100% compliance when they should have aimed their bow much lower to strike at possibly 50% compliance. Now they put people like me into action. I'm not even trying to "wake people up" anymore, I'm looking for people willing to fight this tyranny with me.

As long as I do not reason, solely, on the territory of the empirical, then an ideology can become a theology. I am not required to have a church nor a mosque erected in my name nor a tax-exemption to claim religious adherence as justifying legal prevention of my being vaccinated. Neither are you. We are at this point, unhappily I admit to be the truth as I see it. It makes me mad to think of it.

Liberty of the Individual, commonly conceptualized as negative-freedom (of "freedom from", not "freedom to").

My God set forth principles for one's life, which include those stating that the sole individual is responsible (in-control-of) their individual action. They shall suffer no obligation to follow what is popular, even if it is thought good for them, or thought wise by others. I claim this religious exemption as an adherent to Liberty and in-consideration of health, wealth, or personal affairs which do not harm others (on my final point, we may disagree, but then you have to deny innumerable other liberties of preference, which is not the affair in question). I am a religious Liberal and I claim exemption as granted unto me as defined within the Bill of Rights.

One's own volition is a concept worth considering with regard to my reasoning and central to my religious beliefs. I hope that will suffice.

You give me the nauseating impression of a person who has never researched any argument which opposes their own.

I'll bite that bullet if I have to, yes.

 

It is not absurd if it violates a religious principle to which one adheres, and you seemed to fail to fully represent my reason (leaving out just the right portions of the empirical sort).

 

Quite possibly a Biden appointed judge.

I'm not saying you are wrong not to take the vaccine. The U.S. government and many judges will try to find a reason to deny your religious exemption. I wouldn't want to make it easy for them to do so.

Exactly. Be careful with your words.