I just realized something, almost like an epiphany. Red states like to kill people.

They are pretty much the only states that have the death penalty. The virtual certainty that some small percentage of those executed are in fact innocent bothers them not at all. These are usually "right to life states" which presume to tell women that they will carry that unwanted baby to term. However, once the unwanted baby is born, these same states want nothing to do with it. These states refuse to listen to science with regard to Covid, instead making ad hoc, uninformed decisions guaranteed to and in fact actually does cause an alarmingly high number of totally unacceptable deaths.

 

Some conservatives like things to be black and white and clean. Examining the social underpinnings of crime is a sticky mess. They won't go there easily.

 

This is the way I see it... criminals suck. They are a scourge on society. The law-abiding and productive citizens amongst us deserve to live in a crime free society.

I am willing to live with the extremely small percentage chance that I would be wrongly convicted and sentenced to death for a crime I didn't commit rather than to cater to the criminals who did atrocious things to the law-abiding. Some sacrifices have to be made to have a more perfect society, and I am willing to suffer those consequences if it means removing criminals permanently from our ranks.

 

The majority of murders are crimes of passion - so fears of the death penalty really don't enter the thought process
during a heat-of-the-moment crime. Mass murderers are psychopaths, once again, the death penalty isn't a factor to
those type of people. Mass shooters tend to want to go out in a blaze of glory - so once again, the death penalty
is not a deterrent. Gang shootings? Maybe. So as a deterrent to crime - I don't think much of the death penalty.

And there is always the possibility of error. Hard to pardon someone when they've already been put to death.

I wouldn't say I'm against the death penalty on moral grounds, but practically speaking, it really isn't the deterrent people think it is
and given the possibility of error - I'm just not sure it's really a benefit to humanity.

Now if it could be applied to people who steal the last donut in the box ... well ... maybe.

 

Life without parole? Never gets out except for your extremely small percentage who may later be proved innocent. Plus, it has proven to be cheaper. Where is the down side?

 

Oh, definitely! Last donut in the box? Give the SOB a fair trial and then shoot 'em

 

You seem oblivious to the fact that incarceration for the rest of one's life, without possibility of parole achieves removing criminals from our ranks' without executing them, and it does it just as well. But, sans capital punishment allows the innocent to appeal their conviction and/or, achieve a pardon. You are taking away the last hope of pardon from someone who is innocent. Moreover, capital punishment disproportionally executes the poor and black sectors. Is that justice? How is that justice?

Are you willing to live with the fact that one of those innocent persons on death row could some day be one of your friends or loved ones? You might be willing to sacrifice your life, but are you willing to sacrifice your friend's or loved one's life, IF you knew they were innocent? If you can answer that one with a straight face, and I will tell you to your face you are a monster. You have no right to sacrifice the lives of anyone who is not you, whether you know them or not.

What you supporting is state sponsored murder, which, in moral terms, you are complicit. Anyone who states abortion is murder but capital punishment is not is a supreme hypocrite. There is no counter argument. Moreover, the ONLY reason for capital punishment is retribution/vengeance. Death is not justice, it only satisfies one's appeal to vengeance, that 'he's gonna get what's comin' to him, so let him fry, mentality. It's certainly not cheaper, nor is there any evidence whatsoever it serves as a deterrent.

If I were convicted to life without parole, I would welcome execution, just as someone who has permanent pain so great where there is no medicine to cure pain, wants suicide, to avoid the massive unavoidable pain of incarceration for the rest of one's life. Execution would be welcome. Capital punishment is a 'get out of jail free card' because we are all going to die anyway, and how is death better than living in a small cell 24 hours a day without entertainment without communication to the outside world ( except to a lawyer ) for the rest of one's life? Death to that person is the same as death to the person who cannot escape chronic pain, to such persons, death is welcome.

 

While I have heard many well thought out, intelligent arguments on both sides of this issue, this is by far the weakest, most uninformed yet. Even if you disagree with the death penalty (I do) it is meant to prevent killing. If you are a Democrat, results in liberal controlled cities do not put you in a position to point with clean hands.

When a Democrat criticizes Republicans for interfering with a woman's right to bodily autonomy, I will join you in opposing such laws. When that same woman wants to protect her body from rapists and murders with a gun, Democrats lose concern faster than a conservative loses their concern for human life the moment the baby takes a breath.

 

You've opened a door you may have better left shut with your statement.

Some states have no problem killing a fetus (all innocent) that cannot make a choice, but have a problem with killing an adult (majority) who actively made a choice.

 

instead of wasting money on these people on death row, why not put them into clinical trials and in return for them being lab rats, they get to live (assuming the trials don't do them in). WASTE is not a good thing but the government sure loves to do that with our tax dollars

 

I bet if we had a bake off and compared states with death penalty executions and democrat run large cities, said large cities would win >99 to <1. Think we should start up the statistics machines??

 

The sad fact is, whether life in prison or death penalty, neither does anything to prevent murders. If punishment did have an effect there'd be no reason for prisons.

 

No. We absolutely understand that democratic dependency policy, whole sale warehousing of dense poverty, zoning restrictions, and tolerance of even violent crime in the cities they run all have consequences. Oh, and when your teacher's unions decide their students aren't worth their time teaching, and they turn our uneducated masses and turn them back onto the densely packed poverty stricken public housing areas, its a rinse and repeat cycle that further guarantees democrats money from the tax base to "fix" a problem they themselves created. We absolutely understand this policy that Democrats thrive on.

 

Putting someone in prison for the rest of their life doing nothing productive to help support themselves is a complete waste they should be put to work doing something productive earning an income to help support themselves or saving for the day of their release from prison.

 

The way I see it is if Democrats come up with a viable plan to deprogram Trumpers why can't they use the technique on violent criminals first to see how effective it is. They can release them into the care of Democratic politicians and observe the changes for themselves before being released into the general population.

 

Yep. Absolutely. It goes way beyond just plain ol' hypocrisy, it includes body counts. They have blood on their hands and the suckers are too damn stupid to realize it. While this degree of hypocritical blindness is not new, it has reached a fevered pitch under the Rump. Conservatives used to care, but that has been replaced by combat politicking and its first two casualties are reason and empathy.

 

What a wonderfully naive view of society.

 

And what of blue states which deign to do away with even one of the most vicious and deserving, while cavalierly dispensing with the most innocent by the thousands via abortion. Then the survivors steeped in welfare, fatherless and husbandless, who mature into super predators, go about killing and terrorizing cities brimming in crime, promiscuity and more of the same. Such is blue state science.

 

How can they be "innocent" if they aren't human beings?

 

That is just your opinion. Going light on criminals simply encourages more crime.

Another example: Police chases - many say that police should not chase down criminals because it puts the public in danger. As part of the public, I disagree with that view. I want the police to do everything they can do to get criminals off the streets. And if I happen to get killed because of a police chase, I am okay with that - just another sacrifice I am willing to make to get criminals off the streets and prevent them from victimizing other innocent citizens. Also, some claim that civilians having guns as a deterrent to crime is too dangerous for the public - again, I am willing to take a bullet from a citizen trying to stop a crime rather than to just let the criminals run amuck. I abhor crime and whatever sacrifices we as the public needs to make to remove it from society is okay by me. So I am willing to sacrifice my life for the safety of other innocent law-abiding citizens. So what is naive about that? I am compassionate for other law-abiding individuals, but it seems more and more are willing to accept criminal behavior in our society. So which is really the more naive view?

 

Daniel, although we have different ideas here, I do appreciate your reply which was thoughtful and explanatory, so thank you. Your reply was much better than someone popping in with an asinine condescending one-liner that had no thought behind it at all.

 

Yep. This is the opinion section of the forum. And it is my opinion you have a very naive view of justice not based on facts.

 

Sorry, buddy. There is no equivalency there.

 

Uh uh! That is one slippery slope you want no part of!!!

 

I think you could be clearer on your point, because it is not clear to me. Statistics with regard to what, exactly?