I never really entertained the idea of MIHOP, but it is impossible nevertheless. The same goes for LIHOP, being impossible that is. 9/11 was only a conspiracy perpetrated by al Qaeda with likely I.S.I. connections.
The I.S.I. connections are an interesting twist, and one that I haven't researched. However, it takes a real man to admit they're wrong, I'm hoping someone didn't hack your account. Props Jango
Takes a lot of stones to change ones position on something they feel so strongly about. Takes even more to come out admit it to everyone. Props to you, Jango.
I always think people who convert are going to have it the hardest. Accusations of the government "getting to you" and so on. I hope they don't pester you too much.
That's fairly true, and no offense against Jango, but he wasn't a leader in the truth movement. I just remember reading on JREF about another truther who changed his views. He said he got a ton of hate mail, everything from insults to death threats. What they lack in numbers they make up for in ferocity.
At one time I said I was a truther (based off the definition of wanting a new investigation), but upon closer evaluation, that labeling was as false as the conspiracies directed at the government. I never really subscribed to any of the big so-called gotcha points they churned out. They stand on the side of MIHOP where I was always on the side of LIHOP. I would have been pushed aside anyway because of my beliefs. Once I saw a video or two of die hard truthers in NYC, it repulsed me. I didn't want to be on their side but I felt that there was something odd to the whole event of 9/11, so I kept investigating and questioning things on my own, and without buying a truther book.
In a bit of honesty, I had entertained the idea of LIHOP purpose for a long time. My brain kept saying, "There couldn't have been a way they received more warning signs that 9/11 was coming." As you said, digging into it and seeing how complicated it is to filter all of that and deem what is important what isn't, really changed my outlook.
Of course it's possible! In fact. not only was it possible, it's what happened. The top two people in the military chain of command, George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, did not do their jobs for at least a half hour, the most critical time. Rumsfeld, AFTER being alerted that two different planes hit both twin towers, he proceeded with business as usual, and had his routine intelligence briefing like nothing was up. Due to the security situation, people were desperately trying to contact him, since he's the leader, but he refused to answer his phone. Finally, at about 9:37 the plane hit the Pentagon. Rumsfeld then walked ALL THE WAY to the other side of the building (it takes like 15 min.) to see what happened. He didn't even know what was going on! Then, since two burning twin towers weren't enough to get his attention and do his job, when he saw the attack right before his eyes, he STILL did not do his job. He helped people carry a stretcher for a photo-op. You can see there's lots of men holding that stretcher, Rumsfeld was basically just putting his hand on it to look helpful. As for Bush, after he was done staring into space, he wrote his speech. He addressed the nation at 9:30 a.m. Meanwhile, department heads weren't communicating, everyone was running around like headless chickens, and one hand didn't know what the other was doing. That's the official reason. Because neither leader coordinated an emergency response, even though that's their job. This is during the critical moments while a terrorist attack was unfolding in real time. Although there's nothing anyone could do to save the WTC, there could have been an opportunity to save lives at the Pentagon. Text book LIHOP. Incidentally, I strongly suspect the same thing during the 9/11/12 attack in Benghazi Libya. Four men died, but before that they broadcast SOS. It lasted so long they should have had backup. Obama refuses to account for his activities that night. Did you know that prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, we had intel that Hawaii was a target and that Japan was planning to attack. But the warning never reached command in Hawaii. They kept them out of the loop.
Hahaha yeah, cause the WORST thing to do is to go into an intelligence meeting when (*)(*)(*)(*) is hitting the fan. The people with the "intelligence" would have no idea what's going on, am I right? LoL....nice Or maybe, just maybe he didn't want to be interrupted while getting information about what is happening. To some people, it would seem stupid to make a decision without being informed. NOBODY DID. How don't you get that? People knew planes were hijacked but they had absolutely no idea where the planes were going. The same reason why WTC 2 wasn't evacuated after WTC 1 got hit. No one knew what was going on, this had never been done before. EVER! You say walked like he was supposed to do something else. WTF? What did you want him to do? Hop on a bicycle, drive the "inside pentagon" vehicle over there? Fly? Which you've failed to prove that he wasn't doing his job. Hahaha any proof he had any clue there was a camera taking pictures of him? Any proof that he wasn't needed? Any proof that his job WASN'T to help clearing the wounded? What should he have been doing at that time? For an arm chair internet warrior you sure are judgemental. This might be the closest thing to factual you've said. However, if someone has told me massive news that could change the country I am leading, I would probably take a second to think about it. You know, instead of jumping up and screaming "we're all going to die!!! Jesus, everyone run, give up hope, all that's left is despair!" I don't like Bush, but staying calm and thinking things over was the right move. Says someone who has absolutely never experienced the fog of war. It's real nice to sit here, 12 years after the fact, talking trash like you would have all the answers. This was the deadliest attack on American soil and we had no idea how to handle it. How do you handle (*)(*)(*)(*)ing airplanes flying into buildings and murdering people? What would your commands have been? Oh? Do tell. Please, enlighten everyone here with your infinite knowledge in crisis resolution. Judging by your post it's clear that you have experience in the field. The military didn't need sign off from (*)(*)(*)(*)ing Obama to bring in reinforcements. To claim such is stupid. He doesn't approve every (*)(*)(*)(*)ing move the military makes, that's not his job. He has military commanders to do that. Do you see a pattern here? How do you defend against kamikazi pilots that turn airplanes into missles? I don't care if it happens to America, the UK or Egypt. You can have all the intelligence in the world, but unless you know the exact time, exact location, and exact method of attack, you can't defend against an ambush suicide attack. That's why the enemy uses it, and it's successful. Do you understand? Can you understand?
Jango... where are you at on the building 7 phenomenon?. I'm also curious if the documents you read that convinced you of Taliban/AlQ w/ ISI involvement related to Project Diamondback and informant Randy Glass. If anyone's curious about this info, go here.
Doing their jobs? They're politicians, not soldiers. What exact are they supposed to do, apart from talk to people? Run outside with a shoulder launch anti-aircraft missile and start firing them off at random commercial airliners? Air Traffic Control and NEADS were the only ones which needed to be involved on 9/11, and they did their jobs the best they could. Bush and Rummy could have been on Safari in Africa, it wouldn't make a difference. They're just politicians.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. They are the top two positions on the military chain of command. It was a war situation. The country was under attack. No and that is a straw man. My real argument is in my post. The official story claim delays in intercept were due to lack of communication between departments. Nobody was coordinating them. Ordinarily, you have a chain of command for that sort of thing. That's why Rumsfeld's phone was ringing off the hook. No.. Do you want to go off the 9/11 commission report? I can show you where communication breakdowns and lack of coordination is cited as one of the problems causing the critical delays. You're claiming that they didn't know certain things. Which is true and there was nobody running the show to put the pieces together. Usually the Secdef and CiC would do their job. Let me ask you this. If Rumsfeld didn't have anything else better to do than get a routine daily briefing, why was his phone ringing off the hook? Wouldn't this indicate that a lot of people wanted something from him at this time? At the same time everybody else's eyes were glued to the screen? How come he didn't answer the phone? And most importantly, per his own testimony, Rumsfeld said he had no idea what was going on, until a plane hit his own building. And yet, over half hour earlier, he was informed that two planes smashed into each of the twin towers. So that means 30 minutes he didn't ask anything else. Or even bother finding any more information. While the entire world's eyeballs were glued to the screen. Around the world, everybody, fixated on the screen. We knew MUCH more than Rumsfeld. Why would Rumsfeld not be interested in what was going on around him?
