I'm sick of the word 'Brexit'

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by cerberus, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The EU is going to run rings around us as per bloody usual, we'll accede to its every demand because to upset our 'partners' won't be cricket, the traitorous Tory rump and opposition parties (especially the SNP) will deploy all kinds of subterfuge and lies to turn the negotiations into an imbroglio of confusion and self-doubting, it will all get bogged down by 'the dead hand of government', and at the end of it guess what? We'll end up remaining in and our masters in Brussels will increase our subscriptions for our cheek in even thinking of leaving!
     
  2. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    So long as we leave the internal market, the customes union & the jurisdiction of the ECJ, then I will be happy. Let us see where we are in two years time.

    "Too often to-day people are ready to tell us this is not possible, that is not posible. I say what ever the true instrests of our Country calls for is ALWAYS possible"
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The UK does benefit from the common European market because it is a relatively small country. However, most of the UK trade is with other countries not in the EU.
    The ruling class in London does not want to leave because London is the financial capital for many other parts of Europe, but leaving the EU would not necessarily mean an end to this.

    In any case, if you talk to most of the politicians who support Brexit, they still very much want to stay in the common European market, but vindictive leaders in other parts of Europe are trying to hold that over their heads, threatening to eject them from the common market if they leave the EU, with the idea that this would damage the UK's economy. (Of course to what extent it would actually damage the economy is debatable, and the UK would most likely adapt after a few years, growing new supply chains)
     
  4. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  5. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the UK were ousted from the common market, the pound would fall closer to parity with the US dollar. This would create many opportunities for the UK that the EU might be scared of, including the UK becoming a trading post between America and the non-participating nations in the region.
     
  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the main reasons the EU wants us to stay in is because the mass migrations are going to become so serious that extra countries will be needed to accommodate them. We'd have to obey the EU otherwise they'd keep on fining us until we did. And we'd be stupid enough to pay up! :wall: Another reason is that when the destroyed towns and cities in the middle east need rebuilding, our money will be needed to go towards the cost of doing it. There really is some big **** on the horizon.
     
    The Mandela Effect likes this.
  7. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    The tories support Brexit because they are thick, and a feeble little economy dependent on America will be about their level. All the rest of us can starve. The ruling class great again!
     
  8. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While that may sound in legitimate concern, it seems a little strained to be the driving logic. One could just as easily say that there are forces on the other side of that debate who want to drive the UK out of the common market just to constrain the EU from being able to take in more or rebuild the Middle East. I suspect it is a more generalized power struggle afoot that transcends specific issues as the driver. The US is always going to more naturally side with the UK due to our common history and culture. The EU setting off a trade war with the UK will set off a trade war with the US and I am not sure the EU really is as prepared for that as they think. It may be a manageable affair when things are going decent, but when they hit an economic downturn, the very last place on this planet they need to be in is a trade war with America. Our side of the pond has gotten very good at exploiting economic opportunities in up markets and in down markets to the detriment of the world. We occupy is disproportionate share of global GDP for a reason. When it comes to money, we will win in the end.
     
  9. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about 'With friends like this, who needs enemies?'??

    "France 'wants to use Brexit to weaken City of London'"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...en-city-of-london-jeremy-browne-a7843351.html
     
  10. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  11. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    If you deliberately cut yourself off from a highly-profitable deal like the EU just to support tory careerists you make no more money than you makes sense.
     
  12. lunecat

    lunecat Active Member

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    The internal market pushes up food prices for the poorest in our society with the excessive tariffs imposed by Brussels upon all members.

    What sickens me now is that all the remoaners are trotting out lines like "cut off our noses" and "we did not vote to make ourselves poorer" ... These were all arguments that were had before the referendum & the referendum was decided that we leave the EU. So when these sniveling remoaners trot out their same old talking points they miss the fact that they lost that debate and we shall indeed be leaving the EU. These remoaners want desperately to re-run the referendum because they lost. Plain & Simple.

    How anyone could want to be governed by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in the European commission is beyond me, unless they are closet fascists.
     
  13. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    There is no turning back and Westminster cannot reverse the result of the national referendum. But leaving the single market will damage the UK economy, which is the price Britain has to pay to reduce EU migration. The best option seems to be keeping Britain in the single market for a time-limited period.

     
  14. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    It's clear that sanctions are needed against Brussels and Germany given their habit of telling other European capital cities what to do.
    I add that if Donald Trump says he doesn't want BMWs built in Mexico to be sold in Amierca without paying, then so be it.
    Germany in turn making sanctions against America is petty.
    Germany sticking to their cheap labour exploitation tactics isn't welcome.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  15. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    If we don't leave the EU, then Brussels can tell London what to do.

    Did we lose a war?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to the City of London, all countries are our enemies. We have no friends.
    Inside the EU, outside the EU, France was always looking to steal our most lucrative businesses.

    All countries are. And they always will be just as they always have been.

    The Bank of England was created to defeat Frances ambitions of global domination. It succeeded.
     
  17. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    The time limited period is set to end in 2 years.

    That people think we would sell out our country so cheaply is to have greatly underestimated us.
    It should be noted that the single market is for goods only. That our primary exports into Europe are not covered by any EU agreement, nor have they ever been.

    Good by single market. No loss. A bad deal is not advantageous to us.
    The economic benefits? Unmeasurable.

    Will we be richer or poorer. No one knows. no one can know. And with the benefit of hindsight, people will still not know.
    But many will still say that they do.

    And the empty promises of "vote for me and you will be richer" will also, always continue.
    Same old EU. Invisible carrot and non existent stick.

    Germany while an easy target and traditional bugbear, is in no position to start trade wars with any one. Least of all, Britain and America.
    Two countries that make up the bulk of it's exports, and account for around 20% of Germany's GDP. It's two biggest markets for customers.
    Unlike Germany, both the UK and the USA are entirely self sustainable economies. Can weather isolation. They are actually better off with no EU trade at all in raw monetary terms alone. (We trade at a loss, operate a deficit, and all imports can be substituted with domestic alternatives).
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  18. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Maybe Britain can do a deal if Poland & Hungary get kicked out of the EU?
    Maintaining Polish communities in Britain.
    Establishing links with Poland ourselves.

    Britain could politically say
    'There would be no political repercussions for your self determination.'
    Maybe Donald Trump could back the Polish too? Trade deals with Britain and Poland and US and Poland and Britain and US perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Poland and Hungry are the very types of country we would like to enter into free trade agreements with. Lesser developed economies with no competing industries.

    Trade deals however are not the be all and end all of trade.
    I don't trade with Mr Trump or Mrs Merkel. No deals with them are in my interests at all. They impede my trade. Raise the costs of it.
    That is all.

    Trade deals can be made to protect our domestic industries. The government can use it financial muscle in the our interests. Trouble is, it doesn't. It uses it in their own interests. Which are typically factional in nature.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  20. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do not underestimate the cunning of bureaucrats who have a self-serving intention. They might well be dumb, and indolent day-to-day, but if they have an agenda they suddenly become duplicitous and ruthlessly active in achieving it. I have a deep, deep loathing of bureaucrats.

    Also I don't see why leaving should necessarily 'damage the UK economy'. Mind you, if we're stupid enough to pay the presume 100b Euro divorce payment - and we probably will :roll: - that would damage the UK economy.
     
  21. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's why Le Grande Projet was a misbegotten non-starter right from the beginning. When it comes to self-interest then the participant parties will naturally put themselves first and the others last. Countries are like families - they will always put themselves first.
     
  22. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    Why not? Alien European habits are being used to destroy the UK, and I'm damned if I can see any reason to accept self-destructive idiocy like referendums.
     
  23. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Because it totally beats getting murdered in the street like Ghadaffi.
    In the end, that's the alternative.

    There are too many people here united against EU membership. To rule over them, they must be allowed to rule over you.
    There is no choice here.

    Westminster seeks control of this. May applied for our mandate but was refused it.
    Westminster will do as it's told. Because it has made itself unneeded in this matter.
    And it doesn't like to be irrelevant any more than the EU does.

    Our democratic representatives are elected to deal with the EU directly. Nigel Farage is the democratically elected leader of our country at the EU. Not Mrs May. If she won't sign off on it, he can.

    Mrs May gets to run Westminster. Westminster wants this power back.
    Otherwise, it remains the peoples. It remains Farage's. And we still leave the EU, but no one is looking to at Westminster to speak with the EU afterwards, unless they change their ways because they have sold us out before. Same people. Very same people.

    There is no public trust. They must earn it. Else Macron. Else Trump. Else Farage.

    Westminster wants the mandate to represent for us in Europe. They won't get it, until they prove to be doing as they are told.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  24. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    Get real! Europe is nothing like a colony under colonialist attack, as you very well know. As you also know very well. people who voted for this silly policy weren't united on anything, because they weren't asked a meaningful question The sensible British method was always to let educated people do the decision-making and the ill-informed to kick them out if they didn't like it: it depended on having principled MPs, who began to disappear under Thatcher. As you know, the fuhrerdom of Farage is typical of this magic notion of what people 'mean' - he has not been elected by anyone. The 'people' as you know, control nothing, which is why they voted in this silly, cynical way. Get back to democracy and all this vomit will soon be washed away.
     
  25. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Colonial attack? You've lost me there.
    Ghadafied. Last EU referendum a UK politician was murdered in the street like Ghadafi. If you wind things up this hot, people will get burnt.

    The EU referendum united 17 million people in this country. That is the single greatest act of political unity in the history of our nation.

    No general election win has ever got that number of votes.

    That is not nothing. It came after a 30 year political injustice in which the democratic results of general election after general election and even EU elections had been ignored,
    Do you understand the concept of "never wake the sleeping giant".

    If you have a quiet little regime that doesn't ever do much, no one really gets mad with it.
    And little schemes that piss people off get put through but no one really cares enough to worry. The silent majority, not advantaged by these schemes, stays silent.
    But when you make a big scheme that includes everyone, you unite them.
    The EU united us.

    Mistake for the EU. Big mistake.


    And though perhaps in smaller numbers, the EU does the same thing in all it's member nations. It unites the nationals against it. And in each EU country they will also number in millions.

    Mistake for the EU. Same old big mistake.
    They think too big.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017

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