In surprise move, U.S. and China vow to work together on climate change

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Hell Raiser, Nov 10, 2021.

  1. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Which countries produce the most ocean plastic?

    The Philippines alone accounts for 36.4% percent of the world's plastic ocean trash and India makes up 12.9%. In fact, less than 1000 rivers, that are mostly in Asia, are the source of over 80% of plastic in the oceans. The United States contributes just 0.2% of the plastic trash in the oceans.Sep 15, 202

    China
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    China is the worst or one of the worst polluters on the planet, so I'm certainly glad they're taking the matter seriously, or at least sure hope they are.
     
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  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They have also been taking our garbage for a long time. Coincidence?
     
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  4. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    They already are.

    According to Greenpeace and the Chinese Renewable Energy Industries Association, some two-thirds of the country's solar-manufacturing firms are failing to meet national standards for environmental protection and energy consumption. The production of polysilicon and silicon wafers for solar panels creates dangerous by-products, in particular silicon tetrachloride and hydrofluoric acid, which are being discharged into the environment after inadequate waste treatment (see go.nature.com/mhtayz; in Chinese).
     
  5. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    They WERE buying scrap plastic and paper for recycling. Theyve shut that down in the last few years.
     
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  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Didn't realize we were as low as that but yeah .. it is industrialization of non industrialized populations that is the cause .. plastic being relatively low on my list .. higher up are things like Heavy Metals - Persistent Organic Pollutants - and Nitrogen (sewage-fertilizer)

    Dead zones went from 100 to over 400 over the last 25 year cycle .. one is the size of the state of New Jersey .. Sewage and fertilizer runoff. stimulates the bacteria who use up the oxygen creating an anoxic dead zone where fish - coral - marine life cannot survive.

    and the best part .. we don't have to wait 80 years for these things to happen .. they are happening right now .. Whale species up north have mercury levels so high ... experts suggest that neurological impairment is not far off.

    Imagine I said to you "Mate" don't go near there - an area size of state of new Jersey .. you will die -- no oxygen

    Would that get your attention ? .. well thats nice .. cause it hasn't the Biden Blue "not in my back yard - dump it in the Ocean" plan ..

    Now . ~ 60% of the oxygen comes from the Ocean .. could these dead zones become so big ...and/or the equilibrium go out of whack - that the oxygen supply is threatened ? Well .. obviously if we put enough junk in the garbage can .. eventually .. but we are nowhere close to that ... right ?

    I don't know - and am subject matter expert - but, I can hazard an educated guess .. one far more educated than the Greta's and Greenpeaces of the world ... who lost their way ..on the wrong train ... saying things like "we need to decrease domestic petroleum production - in order to lower our carbon footprint"

    Sounds like it makes a little sense on the surface .. until one asks the simple question .. where will we get the oil we from then .. since we already consume more than we produce ... the only answer left being "Well we will just use less" .. an answer which is even more moronic than the first statement .. as Next year we are going to use what we use .. right now ~20 million bpd .. any that we do not produce domestically (which includes Canada for environmental and economic purposes .. most folks don't realize that we own Canada .. their economy is our economy - both directly and indirectly .. Especially in relation to Energy .. and even more so w/r to oil -- an Exxon on every second street corner .. and a refinery down the block .. Next to the McDonalds ... but I digress .. and yes .. Trump is a moron is what you should infer by this information .. well not a moron but was all just politics .. complaining about Canadians coming here and buying shoes .. smuggling them back to Canada cause they are cheaper .. no .. that was just moronic .. I take back my take-back.

    Ya gotta learn to call a spade a spade mate ... but I have digressed.

    So if you don't get the product domestically ... We have to import it .. Exxon must made a big find in "Nambia" .. .Joy .. we can get it from them .. transport our pollution problems to those folks who - ones known for sound environmental policy .. just like Nigeria .. dumping really nasty stuff directly into the Ocean .. now they can have rivers of Garbage like China India ... "Mexico" .. where we build our cars .. Just not in my back yard mate .... Dump that sht in the Ocean

    and at the same time .. incentivizing and financing industrialization of non industrialized populations .. the root cause of CO2 increase.

    So over last 25 years .. we industrialized roughly 600 million. during that time pop grew from 5.7 to 7.7 Billion .. 2 Billion new souls .. all wanting to consume like a first worlder.

    Right now .. about 2 Billion are industrialized .. the other 6 are not ... so at 600 million over 25 years .. growing at a rate of 2 billion pwer year .. we will never hit the finish line .. so its not like .. well we got most industrialize over last 25 years .. next should finish it ... no no no...

    By 2050 we projected to be 10 Billion strong .. and at the current rate of industrialization will have roughly 2.7 Billion industrialized .. 7.3 left to go...

    When you take a subsitence person and turn the into first world .. consumption increases by 36 times .. so no .. we don't want to put refineries in the back yards of bowl of rice a day crowd .. nor cell phones in hand .. how about we give them a cabbage once a week .. increase food security so these folks stop having babies .. and obviously you know it is the non industrialized who are solely responsible for pop growth.

    .
     
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  7. Big Richard

    Big Richard Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure China is going to get right on this. Gonna grab the bull by the horns and clean up China.like now!!!
     
  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They have to contend with the effects of climate change the same as everyone else around the world, so why not?
     
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  9. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Eventually China will lose its competitive advantage. Rising fuel costs to ship, rising energy costs with traditional fossil fuels, a rising middle class, etc etc etc.
     
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  10. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, just as post war Japan did.
     
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  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is no surprise. The real surprise would be if China is actually committed to what it has said on this.

    China is just trying to appear virtuous on the world stage to all those White English-speaking countries and wealthy/powerful countries in Western Europe. It's probably more like propaganda.

    Maybe some people here have short memories. How many dirty coal power plants has the Chinese government built after the last time they promised to "go green" during the Obama Administration?

    In my opinion this is just a bunch of naive Leftists who want to believe Communist China holds the same values as them when it comes to environmental issues. All the Chinese government has to do is issue an official statement and the news media in other countries laps it up and praises them. No follow-up or accountability to see if they came through on their promises the last time.

    China is trying to appease, and others are willing to be deluded.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  12. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not virtuous, its smart. Fossil fuels are on their way out. It's just a matter of time until it takes more energy to extract fossil fuels than can be gained from what is extracted. It's only the idiots who swear that fossil fuels are somehow magically infinite in supply that think switching to alternate forms of energy is a bad idea. There is no future in fossil fuels.
     
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  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The question remains who should be the one to make the decision.
    If it's smart, then can you explain what reason would there be for the consumer not to make this same "smart" decision on their own?

    No one is saying the government can't research alternative technologies now.


    You know nothing about the situation that is actually going on in China. Their government continues to build coal power plants. Not just regular coal but the extra dirty sulfurous kind.

    In another 5 years it will be the same thing all over again, and people like you will forget what China told the rest of the world the last time.


    China loves solar panels because they are very profitable to sell to other wealthier countries.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    well, they dont want their land because toxic waste, not good for anything.
     
  15. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    yes and no. china dont have alot LNG, they have to import it, but have alot coals, and whatever amount of green energy they put up, hydro/solar/wind/nuclear is not enough to power their cities and factories. currently they are biggest user of solar/wind, but still only account less than 10% of their total energy need. most buses/taxi in china these days are either electric or run on natural gas. per cap base they are 1/3 or 1/4 of US emission. we like drive alot gas guzzler suvs/trucks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In other words you are directly blaming excessive population size for harm to the environment.

    That seems to be exactly the meaning behind what you are saying, if we apply a bit of logic.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  17. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    well they have 5 time the pop, 2nd economy, factory of the world, these combination meant alot power usage. even if they chunk out solar/wind at full capacity, it still wont be able to keep up with their needs.
     
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Factory of the world because other stupid feel-good countries prefer to produce their things in China because apparently it's better to have that pollution rise over China than emanate from over their own countries.

    The end result of allegedly "pro-environmental" policies that have shuttered domestic factories and made them move to other countries without expensive environmental regulations.

    So we give China a free pass because they are doing our dirty work for us. Just so we can "feel good". Since "we" are not creating that pollution.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  19. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I’ve thought that countries which pass production to China aren’t concerned by pollution, poor worker’s conditions, Uyghurs, corruption etc.
    I thought it was just the bottom line. That China can do it cheaper and to hell with those other concerns.
     
  20. Hell Raiser

    Hell Raiser Well-Known Member

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    ah! no. i'm saying that biden claimed to be real green at the climate talks not long ago. and now he is going along with red china which has never did keep any promise on climate change. iirc this means the u.s. will be sending more tax payer money to red china to help them. when they have way more money from trade coming in. so we don't need to give them a "dime". imv. this climate change is a joke imv. why? if you check history the sarhra was once very very wet. that was not cause by man. now it is a desert. the black sea was dry a long time ago. now it is a sea, man didn't cause that either. the earth has been changing from day 1. and will not stop changing now for man. that is my view. interested in your thoughts. :evil: :)
     
  21. Hell Raiser

    Hell Raiser Well-Known Member

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    so there is a global market for green-tech? question: if that is true, then why do governments have to foot much of the bill to get green tech? like the u.s. gov. giving what i call (bribes) to people to buy electric cars? if they are in so much demand, then they should sell without gov (bribes) imo. and red china is very very rich, they can pay for their green tech. by (stealing it from us, or pay for it themselves.) they don't need u.s. tax payer money. that is their problem. question: if you think i'm wrong please let me know where. thanks. :evil: :)
     
  22. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    How is continuing to increase CO2 production until 2030 smart?
     
  23. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  24. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not responding to you if this is the text you want to use.
     
  25. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It doesn’t matter what China does, they can’t make infinite amounts of fossil fuels. They will end up shooting themselves in the foot if they don’t start transferring to other forms of energy.
    In another 5 years fossil fuels will have an even smaller energy return on investment than they already do. There will be less and less benefit for them in sticking to fossil fuels, and without proper power infrastructure set up, they will be screwed when it takes more energy to extract, process, and transport fossil fuels than they get from those fuels.
    If we are able to transfer to primarily alternate forms of energy while they have not, then we will be ahead of the game while they will falter.
    I doubt China is that dumb though. They will begin switching over soon as well, if they havnt already. The writing is on the wall.
     

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