Since this is an international forum and I'm a teacher trainee, I'm really interested in how the educational systems work in different countries around the world. How does the educational system in your country work? What are positive aspects of your country's educational system and what needs to be improved? How could the educational system be improved? Overall, are you satisfied with the workings of your countries educational system? I guess I should start this whole discussion off. So here is a rundown of the German educational system. Positive: Dual vocational education and training: I believe this system to be unique to Germany and it is definitely one of the reasons why the German educational system is as good as it is. People who don't intend to go to university usually start a vocational education after school. This vocational education lasts at least two years but much more commonly three years. During that time the trainees will work in a company where they are trained in their craft while also attending school at least once a week. The consequence of this is that the trainee has amassed a great well of knowledge needed for his craft. This is probably the main reason why goods made in Germany are of great quality even today. Teacher training: The German teacher training, which I myself am part of right now, is also one of the great strengths of the German educational system in my opinion. In order to become a teacher, no matter what type of school, a person has to go through a Bachelor and Master of Education degree. However, the real strength of teacher training comes after university. A Master degree is not in fact enough for a person to become a teacher. In addition, the teacher trainee has to go through another 18 months of on the job training which is very similar to the dual vocational education. The prospective teacher still has to attend classes on the didactics and methodology of teaching while simulaneously working in school and conduct lessons. Of course some of these lessons are graded. Only if a trainee is able to pass this phase successfully has one become a teacher. Negative: Complexity of the school system: The complexity of the German school system is definitely one of the negative aspects. Generally, Germany has three different types of school on the secondary level: one preparing the students for university; one preparing students for high-level vocational jobs in areas like banking or insurance; and one preparing students for handicraft vocations such as carpenter. This system used to work quite well, however, in recent years more and more problems are starting to arise from this system. The fact that there are a number of school types which cannot be identified as belonging to any one of the main types further complicates things. Education as a state issue: This is another negative aspect of the German educational system. Education belongs in the jurisdiction of the states. Since there are 16 states in Germany, there are effectively 16 different educational systems. The similarities between these are big of course but there are nevertheless obvious differences which shouldn't exist in my opinion. Well, these are some of my thoughts on the German educational system. Now I'd really like to hear your thoughts on your own country's educational system.
Good post with good insight. Somthing here for the world to learn. I rember in Birmingham MI, as a recruiter, some of the kids in the high school were recruited to work in Germany car factory vocation program while in High School. Seems like the German public schools system keeps up with change and evolves over time. Unlike the USA public ed system that goes backwards. But then again the goal of USA public schools are to keep the employees happy and wealthy, vs private schools where it is to keep the production tops to recruit more elite kids from wealthy families. I have posted a lot of stuff on the failure of the USA public school system, too much for me to go over. But I do know the German system is somewhat a socialist model which is more productive and successfull when it comes to making smart adults. If the USA could get over it's fears of real modern socialism and not the 18th century version of it, the USA would be able to produce smart intellegent adults.
Thank you for your praise, I do try to provide informations as objectively as possible, knowing that true objectivity can never be reached. Ever since the PISA schock in 2000, the year in which Germany underperformed and didn't even meet the OECD standard, there has been a great movement in trying to better the quality of German schools. And it has in fact worked quite well, seeing how Germany has performed better in each PISA study. In 2009, Germany finally managed to significantly exceed the OECD standard in both mathematics and sciences. So there is definitely a positive trend. Nevertheless, a lot of money is still wasted on reforms that are entirely unnecessary and unhelpful while some major issues are not addressed yet. So there is still a lot of room to get better.
Socialism has worked well in modern Germany. Seems that not only are your education system more functional but your country's productivity and economic success is also the highest of all nations. In this global competitive world, I base the success of a countries education system on the global economic success of that country. In he USA these fools are stuck in the 1920s education system waiting for the rest of the world to speak english. And some of the USA educators actually think the rest of the world is desperatly trying to speak english. Has not happend since th 1920s and will never happen in a million years. Fact is Americans in the USA need to learn German, French, Chinese, and Spanish to be successfull and of any competition to the rest of the real world. Because that is where the success and competition is now and will be for the next 100 or so years.
Of course, the thing to remember when comparing different levels of achievement and education outcomes is that it often has more to do with the population of students than the educational system itself. Particularly, different "cultures" and different income levels. A country with a higher proportion of families with lower incomes will show more poorly in the statistics for social indicators of well being.
Very good information on this post. As I remember from the mid 1980s the German education system was one of the best in the world. As a recrutier in Detroit MI and Oakland MI I remember highschool students being recruited to vocational corporations in Germany's auto manufacturing industry. seems like Germany went after the best and brightest in the world. As a result, they have one of the best public school education systems as well as one of the best economies today. The one thng Germans understand is that people are diverse and they all have different strenghts and desires. With their 3 tier system they allow for may opportunities and develope their students strenghts. Unlike the USA who tries to pidgen hole evryone into spending huge money on college. The German type systm also give young kids hope that if they do not want to be doctors and lawyers, they can be successfull auto makers, and AC repairman. I suspect in Germany these types of jobs are viewed as important as nurses and doctors. In regards to teacher training, seems that in Germany, the teachers are held to higher standards and their job security depends on how effective they are. In the USA it is different, public schools have tenure and teachers can do whatever they want, with no accountability. It is like having a paycheck for life. Currently the German Economy is the only economy in teh EU and the world other than France to be in good standing. In the USA, the complexity of funding a huge massive too big to fail public school system is bringing down the economy. In the USA, Each State takes out loans to fund their public school system. They do it in forms of municiple bonds to invenstment corporations that charge 5% to 25+% interest. These bonds but almost all of the US states in debt and near bankrupsy. Note that in the USA there are teachers unions, teachers associations, education unions, and many other private organizations that suck up money from the pbulic educations system. And the taxpayer pays for it all. So with the unions, the USA public schools have huge administrative costs, out of control spending and demand for more money. and they have the politicians in their pocket. They are the third largest spenders for politicians. Preceded only by the Banking and pharasutical organizations. These public school unions have become so huge and powerfull, they own teh politicians and the media, and they always get their way. So, you can see where that leads. A failed one sided system where the taxpayers are held hostage. IMO, it will be about 6 to 10 years before the USA realizes it is near the bottom of the world's education status, and by then it will be too late to make a come back. I just hope Germany does not adopt the failed policies of the USA public education system. Because it will give me a place to go once the USA hits bottom.
My proposals represent the first step in formulating a plan that will address the uneven quality of education, revising the very foundations and the purposes of education and forming a viable plan that will achieve equality in education throughout the country, make all education purposeful and give the country a clear base of knowledge that will allow adults to speak intelligently about the real matters of life. English The first step is to devise a thorough list of vocabulary words that every high school graduate should know. A school year consists of 36 weeks, so we need to list 4,320 words that every high school graduate should be able to define, spell and conjugate. Every week will include a 10-question vocabulary quiz, starting in week one with the words a, an and the. Reading advances vocabulary, so we need to select a wide variety of literature for students to read each year. Approved books will each have an intended purpose, such as an emphasis on new vocabulary, or introducing a new culture. English class will be considered as a supplement to other subjects students are learning at the same time. When social studies class is doing a unit on Mexico, for instance, a story about a Mexican will be discussed in English class at the same time. Standbys such as The Great Gatsby will be timed for study while the US history class is learning about the 1920s. Writing assignments will begin in grade one and become progressively longer with each passing year. First grade students will create plots and characters they want to write about and spend all year developing the story for a final assignment. These stories will be passed on to the next grade and the students will develop the story further, adding new characters and plot twists, and upgrading the vocabulary for each year. In grade twelve each student will refine and perfect the story and graduate with a novel suitable for publication. In addition to learning words, students will immediately be introduced to Greek and roman root words. It will give them a head start into learning foreign languages, and teachers should often interrupt their lectures to give word origins. Mathematics Mathematics advances systematically throughout the educational process. Therefore any gap between one unit and the next creates a barrier to a student's learning. Textbooks presuppose that all readers have attained a certain level and teachers following the texts usually do the same. I propose that a new approach to the subject will create one continuous series of textbooks that include all aspects of mathematics from the simplest to the most advanced. Each school must teach from these books from end to end and start the next only when its students have mastered the previous book. That means that the third grade text book might not be completed until week six of grade four, for instance, and few schools will be expected to reach the end of the last text. The books will be designed to stay ahead of the minimum pace required for standardized testing at both the state and federal levels. Their exact level of attainment will be documented for review by any university or employer that may be concerned. I further propose that the pace of learning be accelerated for the earlier grades. Addition and subtraction should be taught simultaneously, as should division and multiplication. US History US history will be divided into six sections and taught each year in chronological order in grades one through six (emphasizing the personal side of history such as daily life and popular culture) and again in grades seven through 12 (emphasizing political events and wars.) The six sections will be: exploration, colonization, the Revolutionary era, 1800-1865, 1865-1945 and 1945-present. No aspect of American life will be neglected. They will be told to envision themselves in the environments of individuals of the past. Many lectures will take the form of biographical studies of noted individuals until students can understand what they were thinking and feeling. World History World history will also be taught each year. The world will be divided into 12 sections and each will be addressed from beginnings to the present. This discipline will be synchronized with the social studies curriculum, so students will learn of the contemporary culture in each region the same year they learn its history. This will create an appreciation and understanding of every culture, a total understanding of geography and an understanding of world events their parents can't match. As with vocabulary, students will be expected to learn ten names, events or terms each week. Every opportunity to make the subject more relevant must be utilized. Students whose backgrounds are represented by any country discussed should make presentations to the class about how events and issues discussed impacted their families. Social Studies As mentioned above, studies about the world, including geography, topography, culture and climate should be synchronized with the world history classes and when possible with English literature class as well. By the end of grade 12 every graduate should be able to fill a blank map country by country, including mountain ranges, rivers and climate and cultural references. They should be able to intelligently discuss political matters in far-off countries with any stranger they meet. Science Science education is perhaps the most erratic thing about American schools. The level of resources available varies so much from school to school that there is no way to guess what any individual may have learned. To remedy this situation requires compiling a list of experiments and the materials necessary for them, and creating a distribution system so that every school is able to conduct these mandatory experiments every year. At grade seven, students should be asked to select a scientific specialty and take increasingly difficult classes in that area, classes equal to what they might take if they took it for a college major. In addition, upper grades should allow students to begin internships in fields such as pharmacy, horticulture and medical research, so that they graduate high school almost ready to start careers in those fields. Colleges in the area should unite with high schools to set firm goals for achievement in each area. Languages Language education should begin at grade one by making note of the similarity between words in English and other languages. Whenever possible, foreign words should be introduced. As early as grade three, students should have the option of learning a foreign language. Classes will meet less often than most subjects and proceed at a relaxed pace, The school library should have several simple children's books written in two languages and students should be expected to read a few every year. The minimum goal is to have all students fluent in at least one foreign language by graduation, with some students mastering two. Music I propose a comprehensive music curriculum that will introduce every genre of music, give lectures on its history, cultural significance and meaning. Not only that, but students should be taught to read music, understand the flow of music, the interaction of instruments, notes and chords. By graduation students will be writing songs and scores, writing music reviews and understanding (if not liking) all manner of music. Art Students need to learn art as they do any other subject. That means lectures on technique, style, methods of drawing portraits, landscapes and still lifes should be part of the class. From the earliest ages, students need to be taught about lighting, shadows and meaning in art. They should have access to watercolor, oil paints, acrylic, charcoal and sketching. They should be able to create real paintings on canvas. Education on the subject will reach to subjects such as charicature, comic strips, graphic art and photography. Physical Education Physical education involves playing games, but should include learning the techniques of how to play those games. Almost anyone can swing a baseball bat, but learning how to hit for power, pull a ball, swing more quickly, throw curve balls should also be part of the curriculum. Strategies of sports should also be part of the curriculum. Restructuring Grades I propose that each grade have a set test passing which is a requirement to advance to the next grade. Students may take this test as soon as they, their teacher and parents feel they are ready. Students will work harder, trying to be the first in their class to advance. Others will try to catch up. Students will try to keep up with their friends. Most importantly, as the class gets smaller with each promotion, the teachers will have more time to concentrate on the struggling students. A handful of students might graduate a year or two early using this method, but more will graduate eventually. Also, not all elementary education teachers are equally proficient in all subjects, so specialized education by subject should begin at grade one.
My issue is far simpler and Germany seems to get it, there are going to be people whose only aptitude is being a good worker and doing general labor as in working an assembly line doing a task over and over OR could learn basic skills for an area of employment such as retail work or working in hospitality or barbering. I would say the bottom third of students would have issues doing more than this just on a population spread and including socio-economic factors. Then this is a problem in the US we are basically giving up on a third of students in the long run who either drop out, can't pass the standarized tests so don't earn a standard diploma and give them nothing else to fall back on. This is added to a general assumption by the government not to enocurage basic jobs even in the recovery people attack the low wage and lower skill job but if that is all you can do, then you need to have supports around the worker to provide things. For example the ACA "Obamacare" gives poor workers on paper access to affordable health care but then its attacked when this is one thing if your working at Walmart you must have to get by in the long run. And for me this is also a fairness issue if your poor asking a poor person to pay for more schooling is crazy if I had it to do over again and college was offered but not affordable I wouldn't risk the debt, in Germany if I recall if your a brilliant young person who will do well at University they will get you into a University and educated. And the cost if its what I recall this was some time ago was very low compared to US standards.
When you compair the incomes and socioeconomic level of a USA student with others in their category, the USA student fails bad and ranks lower than those low income students of Cuba, Preuto Rico, Japan, Korea, China, India, Chile, Germany, France, and all of the netherlands. In addition, the USA spends over twice as much on their public education systems of most of those countries to fail and fall behind them. Some people belive their simple guidlines to make students do things will improve their success. But nowere do they assess the broken money sucking system of adults who run the USA education, and the lame teachers without conviction as the major problem. Seems they are still trying to figure out what everyone else is doing wrong. And not taking a good look at the real problems of the USA public school system. The adults and the unions.
I agree, your view is simple. The complexity of what you call general labor is not accurate. The skills and vocational training those valued members of their society in Germany go through is more complex than the simpleton idology of your teachings. They require highly technical specified fields to operate highly technical machines and production factories. They will also get education/class room updates annualy via more schooling to continue their vocations. And best part is they get paid very well. And they contribute greatly to the economics of their country. This is why the USA corporations hire forigen workers, because the USA students have none of these highly valued skills needed to operate modern technology in engineering, auto production, construction, and other types of factory production equipment. I can see how in the USA the focus is to get a loan, and suck off the parents and family for money to go to a 4 year collage. That is what they sell you. Fact is most who go that route, will never like the field they go into, nor will they ever make a career with their college degree, and the banks will still own them once they graduate or drop out. And the worst part is, they contribute nothing to the USA, and become a problem for the USA where the tax payer will flip the bill for their unpaid student loans. You see, this method breeds failure and nothing gained for the USA. IMO the only people that need a college degree are the ones who make it their life goal getting there, and who have the financal means to do it without taking out loans and sucking off the family. If the USA had a system where every type of work is highly valued, you would not have the mentality that high tech vocational work is general labor, and more kids will have an opportunity for a career at a younger age. But in the USA this is a pipe dream and the system of public schools and universities is rigged to make students and taxpayers pay as much money as they can suck out of them. In the USA public school education system there are views of only two types of jobs, general labor like the McDonalds and wall mart, and professional jobs like MD and Lawyer. Like I said, they are in the 1920s mentality and the system has not changed for almost 100 years. With the evolution of other countries' educaton system, they will continue to surpass the USA at an alarming rate. And with that, comes more employment illiterate americans, and a poor economy.
What about those young people who are not capable of complex work the bottom quarter lets stick to them the ones who drop out due to the difficulty in doing the work, who do the full four years but fail the standardized tests or can't perform in key classes failing to meet all the requirements - what about them? You know these sorts they are usually good workers just not book smart but can pick up skills. My issue is we ignore the students who will never go to college and if they did will fail, or would do well in a technical program I'm aware of Germany they have programs for slow students to get job skills and employers need good workers in lower tech fields but now refuse to train them up in some cases. Our system is still tossing aside a quarter of students to flounder with no job training, no diploma, there is no technical diploma options thanks to NCLB and many of this group drop out since they are not likely to get a diploma and aren't learning anything useful to them. What is sad in the 1940's when my father was in High School they had in his area three school types a technical high school for career training (and some general education) he recalls half the credits were traditional classes and half job training in his case accounting and office work. My mother studied retail sales, inventory control, cashiering, bookkeeping and repairing small appliances. One uncle went to a agricultural high school where they spend that time studying the latest farming techniques and innovations that fed into the university for the agricultural management degree for some talented students. And they had an academic high school for the ones who were very likely to go to college the smart kids where my other uncle did go and later went on to become a chemist earning his masters degree at one point. Guess what most students graduated, had employment waiting for them or could find a job pretty fast and even the slow kids could get a baseline of skills they had a factory production option, well regarded for good hands on workers. And the military were happy to take them all you left training in mechanics it mattered. I just feel we need to rethink how to do this now I could see three tiers for US students the work out of High School group, a tracked program going from High School to a Community College or Apprenticeships for those that need more technical skills and can do the work and pre-university. Make sure everyone can earn a diploma, get skills needed and are leaving ready to work and it would likely be popular but would demand NCLB include technical classes as legitimate and an optional route to graduation.
The first and foremost thing you have to understand about the US educational system is that it is highly variable. This can make asking about it complex, because far too many people presume their experiences were representitve of more than just their school. There are a lot of reasons for this. A mix of public, private, and "magnet" school. Different states having different systems. The different cultures of different parts of the US. And that schools are mostly funded by the taxes of those in the schools district. Therefore some public schools are incredible entities where the kids are expected to be we on their way through college courses prior to graduation and teachers earn six figure incomes to inner city schools where it's like some kind of freaking third world warzone where the classrooms are short on books and desks and the kids are accustomed to the occasional friend getting shot.
It's not just the school environments we should be focusing on. When less fortunate students come home to overcrowded, noisy, or even abusive homes, it is makes it difficult for them to study and do their school work. And going to the library is not always a good option either. Many of the libraries in the cities in the USA have too many people in them and are not the quiet places one might think. I do not just mean talking, there is also the foot steps and shuffling of feet of twenty different people moving around at once, all the whispers, the inevitable crying baby when you have so many people in the same building. For many people, this just makes for too many distractions to study. For all we know, international comparisons of educational systems say more about how noisy a country's households and libraries are.
It is a daunting objective to compare education systems across the globe without defining the goal of the education systems. Being that there are too many variables associated to specific regions the goals must be global and common to all the countries involved. Thus, we can look at the economic outcomes of a country, the social wealfare status as measured by specific traits. Or we can look at manufacturing, government, and science technology. IMO each coulntry has it's own goals and they can only evaluate their current state from their past state of education. So, this would be the type of intra spective comparison. Nevertheless, to compare would be looking at very different systems. But the fact is true; (As stated by a comedian Carlos Mencia) Asians still do good in USA public schools over other minority students, so the USA public school system is not that bad.
