Iran fired cruise missiles in attack on Saudi oil facility: Senior US official

That and the damage isn't even that massive to say the least. It's almost up and running. War isn't covered by insurance... so. Weird.

 

Your completely wrong in that insurgents do not take credit for attacks against enemies which they don't do. It happens all the time. By doing so they increase their popularity, and image with their constituency. I doubt seriously that the Houthis had the capability to defeat the Saudis advanced air defense systems and accomplish a mission of this complexity..

 

They wouldn't do it that quickly until they knew what was going on. This mission wasn't the first attack by the Houthis against Saudi oil facilities, although it was their most successful and daring. And the complexity of the attack does suggest they had outside assistance, but not that there was "no attack" and the Saudis did it.

In any case, there is a UN panel of experts which will be closely reviewing the evidence and will offer their findings. As someone who closely follows these issues, I have a good idea exactly what happened and I am not at all surprised by it.

 

You do have to admit the timing of incident is highly suspicious in that it was at a time when Trump was seriously talking about direct communication with Iran. Iran had a lot to gain from improved relations, as they would benefit greatly from a new treaty and reduction in sanctions.
Direct talks between Iran and the US is something which neither the Saudis, or Israel wants to see. Now not only are talks off the table, they have been replaced by threats of warfare. Damned convenient.... Of course the Houthis had motivation also, but it would not make sense for Iran to have provided the assistance.

 

But you have to admit that not everyone in Iran was welcoming the prospects or idea of talks with the US. I am following the issue closely, and let me assure you that for some time now, Iran's Supreme Leader has gone to great lengths to veto the idea. In fact, when the idea was first discussed publicly, Iran's president made what appeared to be a 'daring speech', defiantly stating that he would meet with anyone if he felt the meet would be in Iran's interests. The day after, he was rebuked by Iran's Supreme Leader and then meekly reversed course. After that, Iran's Supreme Leader even issued a written directive prohibiting any contact or negotiations, not only by the President, but by the foreign minister as well, with the Americans. In other words, there was never a serious prospect of such meeting, unless Rouhani was willing to ignore Iran's Supreme Leader. And that stance was again repeat just a few days ago.

Under these circumstances, it is typical of Iran and the IRGC to take extra insurance to kill off such idea. They realize the idea has some appeal and popularity with the people and it is better for them for the idea to be nipped in the bud before pressure from it mounts.

 

I want to add one thing:
While so-called reformist politicians are actually quite interested in negotiating with the US, their real reason isn't so much Iran's national interests either. At least for some of them, the main reason is that the sanctions kill what is their golden goose in terms of corruption, namely the kind of deals and kickbacks they usually get from various 'foreign trade' and oil and gas negotiations. Many of the European countries have similar interests and reasons and Iran's IRGC often accuses the government to be working behind the directives of the Supreme Leader and towards their own agendas.

Otherwise, negotiating with the US from a position of weakness, and in a situation where it appears Iran is being pushed to accept demands that might not be in its interests, isn't my idea of Iran having no reason to kill prospects of negotiating with the US. While the maximum pressure campaign has adverse economic effects on Iran, those effects are far less than what the government sometimes conspires to make them out to be.

 

The hardliners in Iran are not as popular as the west makes them out to be. The post Iran Crisis generation do not share the hate for America that the pre-Iran Crisis have. The hardliners are an aging minority, and the desire for normal relations with the west by younger Iranians are growing in Iran every day. They want the lifestyle and prosperity the west offers.
I can see where the hardliners may believe war would create a new generation of people who sympathize with their views, but I doubt they have much support at present.

 

I am not saying they have support, as Rouhani's election and reelection wasn't a sign of much support for their positions. But it is actually because they may not have as much internal support on this issue, but are dead set against negotiations with the US (IMO for valid reasons in this particular instance) that they prefer that the idea be killed and not become something to put pressure on them. These incidents basically reduce the volume of expectations and pressures for a policy that the IRGC and Iran's Supreme Leader oppose. And while I am all in favor of Iran/US rapprochement, I agree with them at this time. (I disagreed with them vehemently during the Clinton-Khatami years before PNAC et al).

 

One thing I should add and emphasize: the government of Iran (i.e.. Rouhani administration) most definitely did NOT have anything to do with the attack against Saudi Arabia. But they don't have much to do with any of Iran's policies conducted by the IRGC and the Quds force under the direction of Iran's Supreme Leader. While Iran's elected government isn't nearly as impotent and irrelevant as some claim, on issues of this nature involving the IRGC and Quds force, they are pretty much out of the loop. They probably don't even know what happened themselves as there is great mistrust between the IRGC and these folks.

 

The US would do itself a big favor by reducing its footstep in the Mid East and re-focusing its attention on its own domestic problems....

 

Do you really think the Saudi's, who have proven themselves to be NOT adverse
to carving up a Washington Post - American - journalist, like a stuck PIG, and
cartoing him out in garbage bags from inside their own Embassy, would have any
scrupels to blowing off a few Refinery workers from their scaffoldings, make their
False Flag scheme look even a bit more believable ?

.

 

The subject you wanted to raise was once again raised by Trump. I have started a thread on the issue and if you want to know Iran's defense against the "Big One", you can take your comments there. And I will give you a clue.

Anyone, it is time to address the issue, before anyone proceeds to continue their miscalculations by relying on an option that doesn't exist.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ishes-the-nuclear-option-against-iran.561813/

 

The thing is.... the trump administration does not have a great reputation for reliability.... except with Sean Hannity and Rudy Gulliani. So, when the trump administration says something happened, trust us... the immediate reaction is not one of immediate support. And, again, given that trump has gone around insulting the countries we used to have as friends; given that trump seems to pleasure himself by breaking all previous us commitments; ... it should not be very surprising if the response of former friends is not characterized by unwavering support

 

While Trump certainly has a 'credibility gap' and can easily see things from a lens that suggests he has a problem with adjusting facts to the realities he likes to believe in, and despite the fact that Trump is very thin skinned and easily lashes out against those he feels have belittled him, and although Trump is ultimately a pig when it comes to his inability to control himself in any sense (be it his mouth or his scissors), believe it or not the US has bigger problems than Trump!

America's political system is thoroughly corrupted. The corruption is the result of special interest groups who promote politicians who are willing to lie to advance their agendas. Some of these special interest groups do have near equal challengers and so you get to at least have 2 different set of lies competing against one another and some truth emerging from it. But on somethings, there is a monopoly of lies and liars. Especially when it comes to both sides in the top echelons of America's political institutions, media, and other related organs that are designed to promote certain agendas. Even the monopolists have certain disagreements among each other, but ultimately they all promote liars and lies. And demote those willing to tell the truth.

Unless you are able to fix your system, debating on which side the trunk of the elephant is really pointing is useless to understanding either the elephant or even what it is really looking for.

 

Well they have done it once. Lets see what they do next time.

 

You speak of something which is all but past.

I have read that the US aggression towards the people of Iran far from causing civil war and the deaths of millions of Iranians which the US was hoping for has brought them all close together to defend Iran. Iranians are not fools or uneducated people.

 

Actually, when Pompeo claimed "Iran" had launched over "100" strikes against Saudi Arabia after this incident, he was talking about the number of times the Houthis have successfully avoided Saudi air defenses and hit targets in that country. It is not once or twice. The Houthis have been regularly bombing Saudi airports, oil refineries, and other targets. This time, however, their operation was simply larger and more successful in scale, with the precision shown something that suggested a capability that had been assumed the Houthis don't necessarily have.

 

When it looked like they were going to be unable to 'prove' it was Iran, it struck me that the whole reason for blaming Iran was to stop people looking at the situation of the Houthis having managed to do this. I would have thought that the world's reaction would have been 'good for them'. They are fighting for their country's survival from an outside source - the US, Sauds and UK, which has been causing massive death among the civilian population including massive death from famine while they keep them under siege, as well as cholera from them refusing to allow in needed materials to make water safe.

So what you are now suggesting is that the US/Sauds and friends are going to now pretend that everything the Houthis did was done by Iran. They clearly believe that they can get away with such blatant lies in their attempt to destroy the ME and reduce islam to wahhabism and wahhabism terrorism who work with the Israelis against the Christians and non Wahhabi Muslims of the ME.

 

The only "role" by Iran in these attacks is the fact that some of the components in the missiles and drones used by the Houthis appear to be manufactured by Iran and their systems resemble (don't entirely replicate) systems used by Iran. The truth that the military industrial lobby doesn't want anyone to really know is that the military equipment they sell all over the world isn't all that fail proof or anything of the sort. Even systems that the Houthis are developing, albeit using components from various places including Iran (even America's own systems sometimes have foreign components), is showing itself capable of doing what people here find incredulous: evading America's air defenses.

Ever since the propaganda show known as "shock and awe", and building on the falsely read tales from Desert Storm, the American public -- and many others around the world -- have been turned into zombies unable to think for themselves. It has escaped them that "air power" didn't do anything serious in any of these wars (Yemen, Israel/Hezbollah, Iraq etc) except vandalism and terrorism against civilian infrastructure and civilians. The vaunted American technical/military intelligence assets were unable to even take out Saddam in 2 wars, nor almost any of his other generals and members of his high command. Not his Scuds. Even his WMD wasn't destroyed by air power, but pursuant to the terms of the ceasefire he had negotiated when his army was decapitated following advice from Russia to leave Kuwait on the eve of the ground war and declare victory. It was NOT American technical intelligence that picked up OBL. Neither American or Israeli intelligence was able to prevent Hezbollah's arsenal of 30,000 missiles and rockets grow to over 130,000. Everything they have done, and all their eyes and ears, hasn't stopped the Houthis getting enough supplies and building enough weapons on their own to stand up to the Saudis and their coalition partners.

The main reality about American military power is its undeniable capability to unleash terrorism on a mass scale. The rest is mostly propaganda, with a bit of facts mixed in the stories you hear. And the one group that knows all this first hand is Iran's revolutionary guards, who have had some presence in all these conflicts and watched them all closely.

 

I am curious to see how people feel about the following

we all know that the Houthi rebels and the Saudi have been going at it for a while
The saudis have been bombing and sending missiles against the Houthis
the bombs and missiles the saudi use are supplied by the Usa
And if the Houthi Had oil infrastructure, the saudis would certainly destroy that infrastructure

And, we all know that the Houthi are clients of Iran
So iran will be sending equipment and supplies to the houthi
Including the sorts of weapons sent against saudi oil facilities

So if we supply weapons to saudi,
iran supplies weapons to the Houthi
Houthi and saudi unsurprisingly use those weapons
What right do we have to blame iran when houthi happen to be getting better at using their weapons against an enemy who is attacking them with usa weapons?
Seems kind of whinny

 

I agree, they are not fools or uneducated people, they understand the complexity of their own situation, and the part their hardliners play in obstructing normalized relations with the west. Iran is plagued by the Religious Fanatics who wield power much greater than their numbers would justify, they do not represent the beliefs and aspirations of the majority of Iranians.

 

Does the Military Industrial complex and Corporate Power represent the aspirations of the majority of Americans.

Iranians are aware the US tried to cause civil war which would result in the death of millions of them. The US is coming to the end of its hate games with Iran, Iran keeps relaxed and smiling because they believe they can win.

 

Unfortunatly, the MIL is much more powerful in the US than the Hardliners are in Iran. I believe we will be suffering with our radicals much longer than the Iranians.

 

I am not sure I agree with you there. I think the climate emergency may change things. However given what you said would you like the Iranians to come in and take over your government for you to sort that out?

 

Yemen's small oil production is in the South and under control of AQYemen now.