Iranian Father Beheads 14 year-old Daughter For Running Away With Boyfriend

Never did I think I'd find Iran's judicial system interesting, until now.

 

Thanks. I don't want to oversell the Iranian judicial system either, since besides some things which are somewhat archaic and misguided, it has one serious problem that cannot be overstated: corruption.

I could give you a much longer version of the corruption I am alluding to, but the short version for now is as follows: Iranian lawyers who do litigation and appear in court, whether in civil, criminal or family law matters, can be divided broadly in 3 categories. The first include what are often the brightest lawyers and graduates of Iran's legal system. Most of them try to handle their cases by the book. But they have to compete against lawyers who are basically like 'dealers": their job is to charge exorbitant fees which they divide with judges and others to try to guarantee the outcome of the case. As these judges used to be underpaid officially, corruption among them became widespread such that even reform of judicial salaries, raising them substantially, has little effect anymore: they are used to earning A LOT more under the table. And the way they get their share of the pie is through the lawyers 'mafia' I am alluding to. Another category, on the other hand, are lawyers who have connections to foreign lawyers and firms (mainly through the people of Iranian descent who work with them) or, alternatively, lawyers who have even more suspicious connections to foreign governments through groups that are well known. These lawyers are well known, particularly in certain criminal cases, or family law matters or other cases that can benefit from their real expertise, which is trying to create propaganda against the judicial system.

If you are a client, with a case where there is a serious monetary amount in dispute, it would be (regrettably) foolish of you not to go to the 'mafia' lawyers I mentioned. If you have a criminal case, and it isn't the type that would be noticeable enough for much public scrutiny, these are also the best lawyers to go to. If you have a criminal case that is has gained media or other attention in Iran, and is under the spotlight, and the case and evidence is stacked against you, the best lawyers are the ones in the 3rd category. Their job is not to defend you in court, but to present a misleading picture of the case through leaks and interviews to foreign groups and media, knowing that under Iranian law the prosecution cannot talk about a case until it has reached a final verdict. Of course, if the judiciary tries to clamp down on their behavior, that itself becomes another set of headlines to use against the judiciary.

Now, and to be sure, the mafia corruption I mentioned, is actually the biggest problem, even if the corruption from this other last category is responsible for much of the propaganda nonsense. But regardless, while Iran's judicial system has major problems, most of them aren't the ones that win the headlines in the West.

 

You have fundamentally described the judicial system in most nations in the world ... the U.S. included. Sweden is rather different in that the emphasis is on "compulsory legal representation". This may sound wonderful but what it means is that you MUST have a lawyer by your side but there is no incentive for the lawyer to actually represent your case or to do any work at all. They just sit there saying nothing in your defence and let the judges make their decision based often upon Political Correctness, that is to say, if you are a woman you will most likely win whatever case is in your court, but .... if you are an immigrant (preferably black/Semitic) then it doesn't matter if the other part is a woman or not ... you will win against all odds. "RACISM" and "MYSONGONISM" are the dirtiest words in the Swedish language and wielding those terms will make any Swedish official stand on his head to avoid the mere hint of it. Interesting that the last part of the day in court consist of a dialogue between judges and lawyers making sure the lawyer is paid for the hours he spends in court.

 

I practiced law in the US for a quite a few years. While there are serious problems in the US with all sorts of issues, and corruption exists in various parts of the legal profession, the systemic corruption in Iran is much worse. It is not a secret: it is often raised by clients with the lawyers I alluded to, who assure them in return of how the money these clients need to pay will be spent to guarantee the outcome of their cases. The new chief of Iran's judiciary has, since last year, begun an anti-corruption drive that has included trying to get rid of corrupt judges, but the issue has become so endemic to the judiciary, that I have doubts that (even with the best of intentions) that it will make much progress. If this was done much earlier, it could have changed things. But now it is too late.

Although I am not hopeful these cases and reports will make a substantial difference, here are a couple of reports and touch on what I consider merely the tip of the iceberg.

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/or...-judiciary-ebrahim-raisi-judges-detained.html
Iran chief justice dismisses 60 judges to uproot internal corruption

https://en.radiofarda.com/a/former-...rial-for-large-scale-corruption/30657745.html
Former Senior Judiciary Official In Iran On Trial For Large-Scale Corruption

 

I have no doubt about that.

 

Finding problems in America is a racist thing.
SOME blacks get the short end of the stick in America - in China they don't even exist.
SOME Muslims get attacked in America - in China a million have had their heads shaved
and put into concentration camps.
And it's not just China - how Iran treats its minorities and democratic values is far worse
than America. In fact America might just be the world's first real multi-ethnic nation - and
millions more are planning to emigrate there.

 

Are you angry because they are burning your flag or because they are holding it upside-down? I think it's funny that some people get angry over nothing.

 

I will leave discussions focused specifically on America for another thread, but the way Iran treats its minorities who are not trying to overthrow its government (often with foreign support and through violence) cannot in any way be compared to the situation in the US. Much less to be described as "far worse".

Nonetheless, the problem Iran faces, especially in the context of the arguments in this thread, is very curious indeed: Iran's ethnic minorities (who primarily live in the country's periphery) are mostly Sunni Muslims. And Sunni Muslims, which the US supports against Iran, are actually the community whose practices come closest to the picture some like to paint of Iran.

I guess to resolve this anomaly, and to expand the net of Iran haters, I have noticed that recently a new campaign against Iran gain steam among a growing number of recent reports, articles and criticisms: not so much to paint Iran with the vices (real or imagined) of its Sunni Arab enemies, but now with the vices of its western enemies instead. And with the same level of disregard for promoting a more factually based picture of things in Iran.

 

Yes, and with a fervour that has nothing to do with Iran's domestic civil rights what-so-ever. But then, the illegal American invasion of Irak had nothing to do with WMD's nor did (does) the American invasion of Afghanistan have anything to do with 9/11 or Afghani women's rights.

So it's good that you've decided to leave the U.S.-Iran minorities comparison "for another thread". In doing so you might single-handedly prevent this thread from spinning off course as so many other threads have done.

 

Well said.

 

The American flag is NOT my flag, never was - the flag of Anti Arabo Islamo Jihado is mine.
I know Persians are not Arabs, but their Ayatullas Mullas leaders are worse than Gaddafi, Saddan Hussain, Butcher Assad and Kalb Nasrallah combine together.

 

Now that you've finally learned that you just need to educate your friends.

 

An Iranian-American comedian on that subject

 

Most of my friends are Muslims , What should i educate them ?

 

As I said, you should educate them on the fact that Iranians are very different from Arabs in language, culture and mentality. I suppose they don't teach you very much about that in the U.S. That's not your fault.

 

As i said, most of the honor brutal killings are among the Arabs and not the Persians.
I agree that the Arab culture & mentality is much lower than the Persian ... they do teach that in Europian countries.
The Persian Ayatullas are evil dark fanatics . That's not your fault.

 

I am very pleased that you have learned something. Maybe that's my fault.

 

My day is brighter now.

 

I’m still voting screw the scumbags in Iran and those who support them. Women abusing cowards the lot.

Now they have a mock aircraft carrier they built to target and sink in a show of force...that is kinda like beating up a punching bag to show how much ass you can kick...


Well at least they might not hit their own ships this time...that would be an improvement.

 

Mullass

 

Iran has more female engineers, scientists and professionals than many countries even in Europe, with Iranian women making up the majority of Iran's university students and graduates. Which is one reason why the first and only woman to have ever won the equivalent of the noble prize in mathematics (the Fields Medal) was an Iranian woman, the late professor Mayram Mirzakhani. And not entirely unrelated to why the only Iranian to have won the Nobel peace prize, was an Iranian female lawyer and women's rights activist, Shirin Ebadi. And why each year, the pictures showing Iranian high school students winning medals in international academic Olympiads will show more than a token number of female students, with Iran having more such female medal winners than most countries in the world, even compared to those in Europe.

The actual status of Iranian women in Iranian society is, ultimately, derived from their power at home and in the typical Iranian household. In this regard, Iranian wives ultimately have greater power than their counterparts anywhere else (even in Europe), by virtue of the stick they hold over their husband's head throughout the marriage, through the institution of "mehriyeh". Because this important tool runs counter to the narratives some prefer, it is never really explained properly or given as much coverage as it should be receiving. Every Iranian, however, poor or rich, knows about the "mehriyeh" as it is required part of any marriage contract in Iran. And the mehriyeh is different in Iran than "dowry" in other societies or anything else anywhere else. In Iran, it is basically a promissory note grooms sign at the time of marriage, payable on demand, anytime the wife demands, including during marriage or in case of divorce, with the amount typically many times the amount a husband could pay even if he handed everything he owned to the wife -- with husbands who were unable to pay the "meyriyeh' landing in jail, as several thousand were being sent to jail for failing mehriyeh each year (until recent reforms that allowed those husbands who can pay the equivalent of around $30,000 to avoid jail term if they could show they were genuinely unable to pay the rest and agreed to pay the remainder in installments).

Iranian women really don't need crocodile tears from anyone. Those who are genuinely suffering, are those who come from impoverished backgrounds and, ultimately, they are suffering from the same thing their husbands, sons and their male counterparts suffer from: poverty. For the rest, the age-old competition between the sexes and among them, was played out in typically Iranian fashion: where what shown from the outside, is not at all what is seen from the inside! That was how it was with traditional Iranian architecture, were even the most beautiful mansions and homes had very modest exteriors not to invite jealous attention (as opposed to what is now typical, following the westernized obsession of proving yourself by bragging about your wealth and try to show off even more than you have). And that was how it was with Iranian women too: their actual power within the household belied by the veil and covering which kept others who can only see that which is most visible from recognizing it.

 

I will post some stories about Iran that represent the actual, real life, day-to-day issues, in Iranian society. Not feigned outrage based on some rare things which, even when correctly reported (almost never), are simply less representative of Iranian society than focusing the "education" of Iranians about American society, not on something like the George Floyd murder that is all too prevalent in America, but on serial murderers like Jeffery Dohmer (which, nonetheless, are a lot more prevalent in America than the kind of cases that some people like to zoom in on in Iran and pepper with their own facts and judgments along the way).

Here is one such report.
https://www.thenational.ae/world/iran-pre-nups-land-thousands-of-men-in-jail-1.81305
Iran pre-nups land thousands of men in jail

He was lucky because his wife accepted the deal brokered by the judge and their divorce wasn't acrimonious and the result of a mutual decision. But a wife who truly feels wronged by a husband, and has vengeance in mind, would not be as cooperative. Which is why thousands of Iranian men, each year, are sent to prison for failing to pay mehrieh. Even after the recent reform of Iranian law on the subject, which no longer allow imprisonment for mehrieh beyond 120 gold coins (roughly equivalent $50,000, applicable to those who can prove they are unable to pay more). Of course, those husbands who have the ability to pay, will still be required to pay. Most of them, from families following the typical practice among upper middle class Iranian families, where the mehrieh that is negotiated is equal to the groom's birth date (meaning something like the equivalent of $500,000).

This video covers the story.

 

Here is another, real, issue: in Iran, many young couples aren't even getting married anymore. For men, the cost of marriage, and the threat of landing in jail because of mehrieh, deters them from choosing to get married. For many women, they prefer the freedom to easily move from relationships, while pursuing their careers.

Too bad even those reports on Iran which speak to the real issues in Iranian society, have to be peppered with some sensational passages. I say "sensational' because the actual law in a society is what is enforced, not merely what is technically in the books but no one could enforce if they wanted to.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30391593
Can Iran 'control' its cohabiting couples?