Is Racial Segregation really a human rights Violation?

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by Anders Hoveland, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    That is voluntary isolation. Merely choosing to stay away from others is not the same as telling others that they must stay away from your kind (even if individuals of your kind wish to associate with them).
     
  2. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    How am I bothering you? I would think a greater bother to you would be strolling through any urban center in the nation around midnight and having a streetlight shining brightly upon your white face.
     
  3. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    The only time I had a problem because I was identified as white in a black neighborhood two white guys tried to shoot me. Luckily, the lady whose hand I was holding saw them coming.
     
  4. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    And if someone from another race decides to move into that gated community then what? So long as there is no coercion or actions that prevent anyone from any race moving into that gated community then it isn't truly a "segregated" community. It might be by coincidence a white, brown or black community but race cannot be a criteria related to living in the community.

    Someone that chooses where they live solely based upon the racial make-up of the community and seeks to prohibit members of other races from living in the community is a racist and their actions violate the law. Their actions to prohibit members of another race from living in the community violate the inalienable Rights of the person that would choose to live in the community. It is against the law and justifiably so.

    Let me provide an example. I'm not a supporter of President Obama but he is one of the greatest success stories in America today. Raised by a single mother living in relative poverty he aspired to the American Dream and by shear determination has managed to be educated in the finest colleges in America and has risen to fill the office of the President of the United States. There can be no greater story of success in America today and I would love to have him as a next door neighbor because of that. We would disagree on numerous political subjects but as a person there are few finer in America today. Anyone that would not want such a person as a neighbor, regardless of their skin color, is an idiot.
     
  5. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    Your strange definition of "segregated" is duly noted. I see that the problem in discussing 'segregation' is that many of you equate the term with the 'forced' segregation of a past era or with the apartheid issue. No where in my many postings here have I suggested that race be 'the' deciding factor for my choice to live a segregated life. I've even given a list of black Conservatives that I would be honored to have live in my gated community. So race in of itself is not nor has it ever been the deciding factor in how our unique 'segregated' community was formed.


    Yes, I agree with you here, but lets not focus so much on what members of a community can or cannot do (which is absolutely nothing) to prevent someone from moving in, rather, lets explore the reasons (if any) as to why someone not sharing our views on segregation would want to move in with people who have totally opposing views on just about everything. For example, why would I a WHITE man ever want to or ever contemplate moving into the heart of Harlem--knowing full well that the majority of it's denizens are black, and thus they all voted for obama; that they're all liberals or socialists; that most are racists or would at least take my presence there unkindly; that it would be unsafe for me in that milieu, and basically that I would have absolutely nothing in common with any of them. Likewise, no one having opposite values of me and my neighbors would want to join our crowd. This has nothing to do with race per se, it has everything to do with values and lifestyle choices.[/QUOTE]
     
  6. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Historically racial segregation was a result of colonialism and white settlers used to live separately from the peoples of the overseas colonies where they settled in as colonial administrators. While colonialism itself was not necessarily evil, racial segregation has become an outdated concept with the demise of the British Empire and Britain itself had not instituted racial segregation in British Mainland.
     
  7. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    There are Black people that want to separate out from everyone else in the Americas and form their own all-Black nation or colonies:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_separatism

    Is racial segregation really an outdated concept? We can see this simply by looking inside the churches where people go on Sunday. Different ethnicities generally prefer to be amongst their own kind, if given the choice.

    In the below map, you can see the racial distribution of the population in one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world, Los Angeles, USA.
    The red dots represent White people, Blue represents the Black race, Green is Asian, Orange is Hispanic, and Gray are other races. Each dot represents 25 people

    LArace.jpg

    The only reason why everyone has not all voluntarily segregated into their own neighbourhoods is because they are seeking job opportunity and affordable housing, not everyone can afford to live amongst their own people.

    By "racial segregation", I do not mean it should be entirely forced. There could be an area set asside for those who actually prefer diversity, although I do not think there would be many volunteers.
     
  8. stig42

    stig42 New Member

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    i dont like you telling me wher i can live and wher i can go (*)(*)(*)(*) you
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This has already been dealt with as a non started by John Constantine in post 70

    http://www.politicalforum.com/human...-human-rights-violation-7.html#post1061160503

    America is a nation of immigrants and forced settlement. As such America more than any other country in the world has a responsibility with in it's own boundaries for social justice and respect for all people. Now it did not begin as that. It began for white people. That was in the days when people believed in the Superiority of white people and put people of different races in Zoos for all these ignorant white people to come and look at and reassure themselves that they were indeed superior.

    Thankfully through time, we learned more about humanity and how we are all humans. You cannot carve up a country which does not even belong to you.

    and what do you mean by 'own kind'. Do you mean because they live in the same area, have the same religion, have roughly the same income, have a previous history of being slaves? I was reading last week that it is believed that the main reason there is far higher intermarriage between West Indians and British people than US white and African Americans - and the difference is enormous - is because African Americans are far more angry about their past treatment by whites. You fail to see how past actions create present circumstances.

    A US with lots of tiny states for all the different nationalities would be ridiculous and warring all the time because the US is certainly prone to war - and who would have access to it's weapons might I ask?

    But, bottom of the line, most people are educated enough and sophisticated enough and human enough to not want to set in a system which by it's very nature would create an us and them and breed racial hatred.

    Now, do not tell me you have not read about all the racial talk there was before world war 2 and how this promoted disharmony.

    Tell me, do you believe that 'white' people are so privileged that they have no need to take responsibility for harm they have done and just try and continue doing the same?




    http://ndpr.nd.edu/news/24064-the-browning-of-america-and-the-evasion-of-social-justice/

    You are giving your own reason for this. That does not in any way make such a reason the only one. It is simply the only one which is important to you.
     
  10. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    To some extent, it is a matter of logistics and access to traditional foods of the particular ethnic groups. Everybody is rather widely dispersed where I live, with the exception of a few African groups. Ethiopians and Somalis, for instance, seem to be concentrated in the Seattle area, but there is a large Kenyan population in Pierce county. Koreans seem to be just about everywhere along the I-5 corridor, but Southeast Asians seem to be mostly concentrated in the South Tacoma area. (The fact that a majority of Koreans came here as spouses of military people may explain why they are so wide-spread.)

    Hispanics seem to be clustered around more affordable housing.

    The fact that there is a racially-mixed middle class here contributes to the less intense ghettoization of American-born blacks into small enclaves. There are few items of food, for instance, that are peculiar to the diets of white or black Americans and would thus not be feasible to stock in a smaller grocery store. There is, however, a great deal of difference between Korean and Thai foods, or between Ethiopian and Senegalese, or even between Ethiopian and Kenyan.
     
  11. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    I grew up along the North Shore of Boston in Taxachusetts during the 50s and the 60s, and here is what I found about the varying ethnic groups of people. For the most part the towns around me were already multiculturalized. However, there was Little Italy that still survives today in the North section of Boston--predominately Italian. East side of my home town of Saugus is also prdominately Italian. Boston has its own Chinatown where close to 100% of its people are Chinese. Salem Mass had a place called the French Village where most denizens were indeed French. Salem also had a tiny population of witches who still reside there to this day. South Boston is better known as 'Southie' for its high population of Irish. Along the Atlantic ocean water's edge in Swampscott lives the Jewish, who are the only people around that can afford to live in those gated mansions. There is even a cordoned section of the city of Lynn where an inordinate amount of gays live having their own bar/nightclub catering to their kind. Then there is the all-black community or city of Roxbury where I've been told not to enter without first arming myself to the teeth.
     
  12. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    That is forced segregation which violates the inalienable Rights of the Individual. There is no such thing as "partially" forced. Either it is forced or it is not forced. Either it violates the inalienable Rights of the Individual or it doesn't and none of us have any Rights related to who might purchase the house next door.

    I really tire of racist BS which advocates the violation of the inalienable Rights of the Individual.........
     
  13. JohnConstantine

    JohnConstantine Active Member

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    OK so can I ask what happened to you personally which made you decide that living in a multiculturalized area was intolerable?
     
  14. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't intolerable growing up in times that were racially so much more tolerable and different than they are today. What happened to me that had opened my eyes to the stark cultural differences between WHITES and blacks in 1970 (the year I was drafted into the Army) was the racist attitudes of the blacks serving in that same Army. I was but a mere child in the late fifties and early sixties, but as a young man in the early seventies my eyes were opened wide to the incessant racist black-power mindset of the blacks during that time. There are too many historical and personal examples to list here for now, but it didn't take long for me to realize that these people (blacks) were not of GODs flock that he had warned our people of back in the day. So, having nothing in common with, having been personally attacked both verbally and physically by and having realized the black mans' contempt for WHITEY, had basically given me all the learning material I needed in order to fight for the right of people to peacefully segregate into various enclaves of like minded people in which they would feel most comfortable. I haven't seen where the black mindset is any different today in the 21st century as it was back in 1970. If anything, the racist and cultural divide couldn't be greater.
     
  15. JohnConstantine

    JohnConstantine Active Member

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    See anything wrong with these two statements? Things are less tolerable today than in the 50's and 60's? And growing up you only noticed racism from blacks? - in the 50's and 60s? I'm sure you can't be saying that, though it seems you are. Well yes the divide is still there, more prominent in America than in the UK and for obvious reasons. We had skinheads and you had the KKK, racism in America is much more extreme than here. To say attitudes haven't changed is ridiculous (the civil rights movement, Malcombe X, Martin Luther King and others changed nothing?), maybe amongst some people but the general attitude in America in the 50's a dn 60's was that black people were second class citizens. We all know the majority of white people would not say that today. The fact that you can't even recognise the racial evolution in America in the past 50 years demonstrates that you are clearly out of touch and stuck in the past. Black man's contempt for whitey in the 50's and 60's was an inevitable outcome borne out of years of oppression at the hands of their white masters. The nation of Islam were a racist organisation. Of course they were, but what do you expect in the wake of the KKK, evil begets evil. Malcomb X in fact began to see the errors in his ways through Islam towards the end of his life, though he still stood in solidarity with black nationalism as he broke away from the nation of Islam his vision became more alligned with King's, which was one of intergrated harmony.


    Your God doesn't exist, for one (sorry)

    This is old Lib, people claiming to be God's favourite, or saying that a certain people are not of God's flock, the nation of Islam were doing just that. To them Whites were devils and the true way of the black man was that of righteousness. And if we go by the terrible acts perpetrated by one people to another black people have a much stronger case against whites with regards to who are the "devils". But that's just religious nonsense, religion was used for many years to justify slavery as well. Use your little book of fairytales to justify racism all you like, it's dangerous, childish and unchristian, but that I mean Christ would not approve ;) What happened to love thy neighbour? Though I get it, it's a stupid sentiment, unconditional love is by and large an inapplicable concept.


    Not entirely true, you both have prejudices with regards to race, you will therefore share some common ground with a black racist. In fact as I've mentioned a conversation between you and a black nationalist would be must more congenial and agreeable.
     
  16. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    "Wasn't intolerable" until the 1970's? African-Americans had been subjected to slavery, highly oppressive discrimination under the law, and then even when the Civil Rights act passed and the Supreme Court decisions in Brown v Board of Education established that "separate but equal" was a funamental violation of the Constitutionally protected Rights of African-Americans the invidious discrimination against African-Americans continued and it continues to this day. Of course African-American's were angry in the US Army even into the 1970's. Remember that less than 25 years previously they were blatantly discriminated against even in the US military. They had every right to be angry because of the invidious white discrimination and oppression against them that that had been going on for over 300 years in America!! They have a right to be angry today because of the white racists that continues to perpetuate that oppression and discrimination against them.

    The absurdity in logic of the white racists is unbelieveable. The white racists propagate the oppression and discrimination against African-Americans and then call the blacks racists because the blacks identify their white racism. The white racists don't want us to remember the thousand of African-Americans that were lynched by white racists in American. The white racists don't want us to look at FBI statistics today which reflect that African-Americans are the victims of over 70% of all racially motivated hate crimes and they are 22-times more likely to suffer from a racially motivated hate crime than a white person. The white racist lives in denial of the fact that it is the oppression they propagate that results in higher black crime, higher unemployment, lower wages, less career advancement and lower achievement for African-Americans in the United States.

    The white racists lives in their little bigoted ignorant world of prejudice and they choose to sweep their nefarious history and the results of their racial hatred under the rug. They want to blame the victims of their hatred rather than acknowledging the fact that they are the problem and they have always been the problem.
     
    Glock and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

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    So...you're going to segregate people by colour.

    Then you're going to segregate people by whether they agree with your philosophy.

    And whether you (!) find their minds to be open or informed.

    Then...
     
  18. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not going to segregate anyone, the people themselves have got to want to live life that best fits in with their lifestyle and with people who share their common interests, ideologies and perhaps philosophies. Race and color has never been a factor for me in wanting and needing to segregate.

    That's right, philosophy is but one major consideration among many when it comes to the fine art of segregating the masses.

    You tell me Viv, would you want to live next to people who had opposing political views, were uninformed of all things political and came at you with a closed mind when you mentioned to them that you believed in peacefully segregating people by joining like-minded peoples' toghether according to what would make life the most comfortable for them?[/QUOTE]
     
  19. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    Rational people do not want to re-segregate because they now see how unjust it was and how little of the harm that they predicted befell them.

    A lot of irrational people think they have been getting raped, but that is not anything that the rest of us should cater for.


    We would all eventually wind up living next to an intolerable schmuck at some point even under your plan.
     
  20. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    My statements had to do we me personally as a youngster growing up in the 50s to the early 60s. I was too young to be affected by or to realize that there may or may not have been racial tension in the air, although my brothers and I were beaten by a gang of black kids when I was a second grader, where they split my brother's head wide open.

    You sound like you could be the white guilt apologist spokesperson for the ACLU, Southern Povery Center and the NAALCP combined. My goodness, do you suppose I have 'every right' to be angry every time I see a group of 6 black kids who look to be up to no good, and to be that way while racially profiling them? Give it a rest, suck it up and enter into the 21st century by leaving old battle scars behind. The 18 to 22 year old blacks I encountered in 1970-72 while serving in the Army weren't belligerent because of something that happened to their ancestors, no, they were belligerent because they wanted 'black power' as was revealed by the clenched fists and total disregard for and racist comments aimed at the majority of WHITES.

    Look, its one thing for you to become the white guilt apologist for any and all of past problems blacks may or may not have had, but to state that white racists (whomever they may be) are responsible for or propagate the so-called oppression and or so-called discrimination against black Americans is ludicrous. Blacks today are given every entitlement known to man thanks in part to the taxes we WHITE folk pay to the government. Please show me where and how these so-called white racists discriminate or oppress these black people. You seem to be living in a time warp.


    Oh, and you've spoken to some of these so-called white racists where they told you first hand that they didn't want you white guilt apologists to remember some criminal acts that took place a century ago? I get it now.



    You're joking of course. I don't have the time to post the stats, but Zook had been kind enough to post them that clearly show black on white crime far exceeds white on black crime. So cry me a river.

    Oh my GOD, there you go again. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. First, white racists (whomever they may be) aren't responsible for another man's sorry lot in life. All those negative attributes you listed are the stock trade of the majority blacks in America today. Funny how Conservative blacks don't seem to be a part of this black victimology that you posit here. No, black Conservatives don't play that victimology card; they pick themselves up by their own bootstraps and more times than not become professional men and women who didn't resort to checking in on the welfare line to do so.

    If what you say is correct in that the white racists (whomever they may be) live in their little bigoted ignorant world of prejudice and they choose to sweep their nefarious history and the results of their racial hatred under the rug, then how is it possible that they would possibly have any responsibility for the perceived or real problems the blacks of today face. Remember, you just said that these white racists (whomever they may be) are living in this secluded world where they sweep all racial history under the rug. How can a white racist (KKK member) living in the town of Kukluxklan possibly have an affect on or oppress a black man who lives in an urban setting made up a majority of black people?
     
  21. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I'm glad that the ACLU was brought up because it is the foremost advocacy group for protecting the Rights of All Americans and it is highly involved in the violations of the fundamental Rights of Americans that are adversely affected by racism today. They address this on many levels from invidious racial profiling by law enforcement to general racism in America which is far more widespread than many realize.

    http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/racial-profiling

    https://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/aclu-history-fighting-racial-justice

    The ACLU is the foremost advocacy group for the very ideals upon which America was founded and should be supported in it's efforts by anyone that believes in America and the unalienable Rights of the People as expressed by the Declaration of Independence. Racism, racial profiling and racial segregation is one of the most invidious forms of discrimination.
     
  22. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    This, of course, just leads us to believe that you are out for revenge for having had your ass kicked years ago. Your attitude toward black people leads us to wonder whether you might have had it coming.

    Well, DUH! They may very well have been still pissed off over what people like you had done to THEM. Hello, people were still killing people for being part of the civil rights movement back then.

    Rednecks still felt at liberty to make fun of elderly black people walking through what had once been exclusively white areas of town.

    Dirtbags felt at liberty to randomly shoot people who dared to date across the color line.

    You are quite obviously unable to understand what other people are going through because your entire focus is on yourself and your feeling of victimization.



    Back in the 1960s, that was definitely the case, especially in the south.

    You seem to be unaware that there are also black people paying income taxes to support welfare programs which also benefit a lot of WHITE WOMEN. What I am her ing from you is a lot of whining about how the nasty liberals are taking your stuff and giving it to a bunch of lazy black people, which is not really the case at all.

    A century ago, my wrinkly white butt! It was less than fifty years ago that some fools tried to shoot me for dating across the color line.

    Well, DUH! Poor people are more likely to commit crimes like robbery than are the middle class. So who do you rob if you ereally want money? Some guy who can only afford to live in the poor part of town? So cry me a river.
     
  23. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    No revenge here. I have a helping attitude toward black people as I'm always coming up with new plans for them to live peacefully by segregating with their own.



    What people like me did to them? And that is exactly what? Who was killing who back then?


    Oh my GOD, rednecks used invective. How much time you think they should serve for being dickheads?


    What does that have to do with the topic of this post, and how does that compute with today's problems in our multicultural society of racial tension?


    I know exactly what these people are feeling, and thus the reason I'm offering solutions to their problems. How do you come up with this nonsense that I feel victimized? I'm not nor have ever been a victim of anything. I did'nt even feel like a victim after those black kids attacked me. I look upon those type of incidences as being life experiences in which to learn from.


    Sure there are a lot of white women on welfare, but white women isn't the topic for discussion here. For the most part, blacks have a disproportionate amount of people on the welfare roles.



    So now poor people are given a free pass to bypass jail so that they're entitled to rob the rich to feed their young? What country do you live in that changes the laws to appease the destitute?
     
  24. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    How about a better plan of welcoming them to live next door?
     
  25. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    Couple problems with that: First, most of them could'nt afford to live next door to me. Probably need to have steady employment before contemplating buying a house. Second, having a black living in among all WHITE people would no doubt make him feel uncomfortable--especially if he's one of the 90% that had voted for the socialist obama. So again, more reason for us to segregate into that utopia lifestyle you libs have always dreamed of.
     

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