Is sea level rising and whyare

i am sure a few of our skeptical brethren will tell us that sea level is NOT RISING; and even if it was, we could not measure it.

More realistically, most of us agree with measurements showing that sea levels are rising.... certainly over a long time, and perhaps there will be a dispute noting the pace of this rise and that at this rate we have little to worry about for a long time.

Never the less, most of us agree that sea levels ARE RISING. Lets now consider why that is the case

Some skeptics argue that sea levels are not rising, but in fact the ground is sinking. It is unclear why this is happening, they will make their point and explain it i presume

But the most commonly agreed fact is that sea levels are in fact the rising. And we have to wonder why this is. Some alarmists argue that ice is melting due to climate change. Skeptics typically dispute warming, and also dispute melting. So i guess we know that melting ice is not responsible for sea level rise.

But then we need another reason why sea levels are rising? What is that reason?

 

FIrst off " most commonly agreed to" means nothing in the world of science.
Secondly sea levels have been rising since the last ice age ended.
Thirdly many ancient cities are now under the ocean through both processes of land sinking and sea levels rising.
I'm sorry, did you have a point?

 

i am asking why

Is it all melting ice?
If so, do you agree that ice is now melting since you agree sea levels are rising

Just trying to figure out skeptics propose is causing sea level rise

 

As I said sea levels have been rising since the last Ice age ended and obviously that's because ice has been melting since the last Ice age ended. What about that don't you understand?

 

The complex and interlaced results of Ocean albedo, liquid thermodynamics and melting ice MUST lead to rising ocean levels...period.

 

There are several things that i do not understand

First, in any discussion like this, when ever anyone claims that ice is melting, a skeptic responds by claiming the ice is not melting, and in fact we have more ice in antarctica... so is the ice melting or not.

Next, if the ice is melting, it stands to reason that the climate is warming... right?

Next, if sea level rise is from melting ice... and the rate of rise is increasing... then it stands to reason that there is some increased warming responsible for the increased melting leading to an increased rate of sea level rise

And since this increased rate sea level rise from melt ice seems to be persistent, rather than short term, then it seems clear that what ever is causing this is not a short term issue (for instance short term cycles like el nino or sun variability)... so need to identity some change factor that has started just about when co2 levels really started to increase... a long term and persistent climate change factor “like co2” but not co2 of course since we know co2 is not the factor driving this change..... so what is that other factor that is driving increasing the rate of ice melting

And if ice is melting at an increasing rate.... wouldn't that eventually become a problem? I mean, we rely upon glaciers t9 fresh water.... no glaciers and we have a problem. So would we want to understand what is happening with ice melt. And if it is related to co2.... maybe we would want to explore mitigation options

Of course it would be great if we could rule out co2 as implicated in this problem. But, so far, no one has been able to prove that co2 is not a greenhouse gas which might be causing these increasing rates of ice melting. Nor has anyone proposed an alternative cause of the INCREASING RATE of ice melting... increasing above and beyond the acknowledged historical rate of melting

 

Count how many times you used the word "if" to justify your so called reality. Think about that.

 

Joe
I asked you why i thought sea level rise was important

In order to answer that question p, i need for us to agree on why that was happening

You said ice melt
I am willing to accept your answer.... and then draw conclusions based upon YOUR ANSWER

If We accept YOUR ANSwer that increasing ice melt is causing increasing rate of sea level rise.... then we need to know why ice melt is increasing as YOU SAY.... WHY IS THAT JOE, why is ice melt invpcreasing?. I say warming is the logical cause of increased ice melt, but IF you have a different answer, tell me now


One if......
.. IF we accept your answer.... is that too much for you to handle?

 

My answer on ice melting was it has been melting since the last Ice age ended which is fact not "if". Whether it's currently melting at a different pace than before or melting at all is debateable. The glacier in Greenland that everyone was so worked up about a few years ago is actually gaining ice now.

 

Bolded is correct. It is not possible to measure a global sea level. Why can't we? Simple... Because there is no valid reference point for making such a measurement, as land does not stay in the same precise location (ie, it shifts).

 

It melts. It also reforms. I'm not seeing the concern...

No, it doesn't. There is no "the" climate. There are MANY climates across Earth at any given point in time. It is not possible to accurately measure global temperature.

It is not possible to accurately measure global sea level, nor is it possible to accurately measure global temperature. Sea level measurements do not have a valid reference point and we don't have near enough thermometers to measure global temperature, due in part to the high variance of temperatures.

At what point does something move away from being "temporary" to being "persistent"? It is not possible to accurately measure global CO2 levels, as CO2 is not uniformly distributed throughout the atmosphere.

IF true, it is not related to CO2. CO2 cannot warm the Earth. Heat cannot flow uphill...

Science has already ruled it out. See the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Science does not make use of proofs, but the theories behind the laws of thermodynamics have yet to be falsified. Heat cannot flow uphill.

It's not my job to come up with one. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

 

But the question is WHY
you have not said the equally obvious truth
The ice has been melting be because the earth is warming

Ok... but sea level is rising at a faster pace


And you say that sea level rise is caused by ice melting?
So it is not me that is making the claim that ice is melting
You claim that sea levels have been rising since the little ice age
And you claim this is happening because of ICE MELTING

I assert that ice melts because of increased heat
Global warming

I claim that sea levels are rising at a faster rate
And YOU attribute sea level rise to melting ice
Which would mean increased global warming.... according to YOU

 

Your assertions of increased sea level rise are pure unprovable speculation so in effect you are asking me to comment on a hypothetical. Another "if" attempt by you. My contention is fact based and historically documented. Sea levels have risen as ice has melted since the end of the last Ice age. Your attempt to somehow equate that fact based opinion into saying I believe in AGW is kind of pathetic.

 

Sea level is falling. With increased evaporation due to AGW.

 

As usual, the final refuge is to deny the proof of actual data

 

True believer charts and graphs mean nothing to me especially when they begin as the LIA ended. Nice try.

 

Thes charts are based on our best available information
the fundamental problem is that
You have assigned yourself as final arbiter of what is proof and credible data
And there is no evidence that you will accept

Well, cut off the first 50 years... the result is the same
But, possibly your point is that the existence of the little ice age and its end ...imply unstable, unrepresentative climate data such that it is not possible to infer any conclusion from data trends in this period? Which again returns us to observe that you will not accept ANY data... since all data will come after the end of the little ice age, and therefore in your view be unreliable

 

Cut off the first fifty years and your chart still reflects us coming out of the LIA. Ice newly formed in the LIA is still melting

 

So, like i guessed, you say there is no proof because you dismiss all evidence

 

There is no evidence to dismiss. There's scary predictions, computer models and charts and graphs that always seem for some strange reason to include the LIA era and portray it as "normal" in an attempt to make today's climate look exceptionally warm.

 

Assuming that you dismiss satellite measurements. There is physical tide gauge measurement

Not in scientific literature Lets focus on the science.

If someone disputes a particular model, they should specify which model and why it is “wrong”. Fwiw, these models have been tested by retroactively using known data from the last hundred years. And by in large they have been pretty accurate

because we do not have tide gauge records from that era. How ever !there are various ways of estimating historical sea levels if That would help the discussion

. We are discussing sea levels and whether sea level rise is accelerating, and if so what may be the cause

 

Get back to me when you have definative answers to those questions.

 

Here are the answers

Sea level rise is accelerating
Heat is the reason

 

Re:

How about erosion in addition to the melting of the ice?

Just think that with each rainfall, a certain amount of silt flows into the ocean not just from rivers but all along the coast line.

Does that seem plausible?

 

For the 100 years or so we actually have been measuring it it has risen at a fairly steady state since the end of the Little Ice Age. Not one ride gauge worldwide shows any acceleration.

One reason land subsides (lowers) is from pulling out ground water. The other is the constant shifting of the ground still adjusting from losing the weight from the glaciers from the last glaciation. That is why sea levels are dropping in some northern areas.