Is sea level rising and whyare

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by ARDY, May 17, 2019.

  1. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The great lakes region is STILL rising after glacial melt made the lakes.
     
    Josephwalker likes this.
  2. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, there are undeniably many factors at play. And, taking the example that you reference, such factors are understood and incorporated into the relevant calculations. But, as was pointed out. Continental drift is a constant factor, and thus would not account for short term variability in the rate of sea level change. Also, since the mass of the none oceanic earth remains constant... a rising in one location caused by Continental drift would be compensated by a falling on some other area
     
  3. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First off any attempt at calculation and compensation for continental drift and land sinking and rising is imposed to determine with any accuracy. Secondly "Continental drift would be compensated by a falling on some other area".
    Are you really serious here? You really think it's just that simple?
     
  4. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Spell check correction, correction. LOL
    I hate that crap!
     
  5. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    8,386
    Likes Received:
    1,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (Presumably you mean impossible rather than imposed?)
    in any case,
    It seems to me that telemetry can measure pretty much anything that they decide to measure

    I did not entirely mean it as simply ad you took it...

    That said, i found the following in the encyclopedia of ocean sciences 2013

    On the time-scales of millions of years, continental drift and sedimentation change the volume of the ocean basins, and hence affect sea level. A major influence is the volume of mid-ocean ridges, which is related to the arrangement of the continental plates and the rate of sea floor spreading.
    Which again contradicts your assertion that scientists do not consider such factors

    Also, you will note the that he says theses factors impact sea levels over millions of years.,.. which make these factors as unlikely candidates to cause significant impacts over decades
    And, by reverence to the images about continental drift posted on this forum... I need that those images also were over millions of years... and even in those images the continents mostly looked to be floating around... relocating... over millions of years.... rather than rising and falling... and i note that when things float around.... fluid levels do not channge



    Further, do we have any reason to believe these factors have radically changed.... which is what would be necessary to cause a significant acceleration of impact



     
  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I understand the principles you are describing but don't see how one could accurately measure the movement of so many massive elements when everything comprising the earth's crust is in a state of flux (i.e. tectonic plate movement on land and at the bottoms of the oceans).
     
  7. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The issue here in Time and scale. Climate Change is gauged in years, decades and centuries whereas Geologic activity takes place in....Geologic time frames of thousands to millions of years.
     
  8. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Continental drift, underwater mountain chains rising, valleys falling land masses rising and shrinking are not factored in to any sea level statistics we receive from NASA or the IPCC nor can they be and essentially measuring the effects of these things would be like hitting multiple moving targets riding piggyback on multiple other targets moving in different directions at different speeds and in the dark. You seem to think earth is a water balloon and pushing down on one spot will push out equally on another spot and be simple to measure. Really though I don't know why you bother trying to present any manufactured evidence at all. You already stated you don't need hard evidence you just need to convince enough people to get your laws and regulations passed. To paraphrase Treasure of Sierra Madre " Evidence, we don't need no stinking evidence". Then again fake evidence will do the job you want it to I guess because as General Sherman said of the South " People in the grip of a delusion believe it harder than real fact"
    By the way speaking of NASA they say sea levels dropped in the past years and are desperately trying to explain why.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  9. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Geological change doesn't just suddenly happen in thousands or millions of years increments. It's going on as we speak with constant movement of continents, underwater mountains pushing into the sea, sea beds rising and falling, islands doing the same not to mention sudden earthquakes that shift huge amounts of land up and down as the earths crust fractures. This all adds up even on a daily basis. We are talking about massive amounts of land constantly shifting position here and if you think that doesn't effect sea levels you are mistaken.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Yes, I agree.

    I was just initially responding to the last question in the OP:

    I simply submitted that just one of the several factors behind the rising of the sea levels was erosion of land based sediment into the oceans.
     
  11. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It may be you do not understand Geology and accumulation of effect. Yes real time events occur daily and we see these locally, but geology is studied and considered on much, much larger scales. Think of Hawaii as a very simple example. We watched and studied the recent volcanism, noted the changes in land mass as well as shifting elevations, but that has little if any meaning when studying the Island chain as a whole or the seismic evaluations. It was certainly interesting to watch the magma chamber shifts and which chamber the magma came from but that does not mean the islands have changed.
    Climate Change study involves the real time changes and short term Atmospheric/Oceanic variables but has little reason to consider geology.
     
  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It may be you don't understand geological effects measured in thousands or millions of years are an accumulation of constant movement occurring under our feet world wide as we speak.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That effect is only localized and minimal even there.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That is what I just said....how did you not get that?
     
  15. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then we agree that this makes sea level impossible to measure by one statistic alone as in warming.
     
  16. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Once again you don't realize this is occurring simultaneously worldwide and localized events have a cumulative effect around the planet.
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No we do not, and I am unsure where you even imagine that from. Many variable are considered such as:
    • The tides, caused by the moon
    • Large and small waves caused by wind and the tides
    • High- and low-pressure areas in the atmosphere, which change the surface level of the ocean
    • Temperature changes in the ocean, which change the density and volume of the water
    • Rainfall and river water flowing into the ocean
    • and many others as well
    Geology is seldom a large factor in evaluation of ocean levels as the effects cannot me measured adequately at these scales.
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Apparently I do not realize the validity of your opinion so we will just disagree, I am okay with that.

    Have A Nice Day:)
     
  19. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly what I have been saying. Now you get it
     
  20. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's not opinion that the earths crust is in constant flux, it's fact.
     
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I suppose I was confused and replying to this:
    "
    Josephwalker said:
    Geological change doesn't just suddenly happen in thousands or millions of years increments. It's going on as we speak with constant movement of continents, underwater mountains pushing into the sea, sea beds rising and falling, islands doing the same not to mention sudden earthquakes that shift huge amounts of land up and down as the earths crust fractures. This all adds up even on a daily basis. We are talking about massive amounts of land constantly shifting position here and if you think that doesn't effect sea levels you are mistaken."

    I believe we are done here.
     
  22. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes we are done here. You have admitted that geological movement is far to complex to be factored into sea levels so it is ignored and taken out of the equation all together which has been my main point in this discussion all along. Just as in climate change itself the cult focuses exclusively on one possible cause while ignoring the myriad other relevant factors because they are inconvenient truths and impossible to measure with any accuracy.
     
  23. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well.....at least you no longer deny climate change is happening so...that's progress. Now its real but we don't understand it and so humans aren't responsible and measurements are wrong. In a couple years you might even change that part while the rest of us deal with the new realities you still deny.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  24. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What nut denies climate changes.
    Spring
    Summer
    Fall
    Winter

    We see it change.
     
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just so you know....we call those seasons.
     

Share This Page