Is Taxation Theft?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Tori Higgs, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    If you are a libertarian, you understand that taxation is theft. Granted, if you agree with a sales tax, it doesn't necessarily violate your libertarian philosophy. However, you would be moving your line in the sand, if you don't understand that wage taxes aren't only theft, but were never ratified by the required number of states to make it law (Constitutional Law). Wages are compensation for your labor. Therefore, wage taxes tax your labor. Taxing your labor makes you a slave. Economics 101! Income taxes are a misnomer. Income comes from your investments. Most human slaves have been indoctrinated into believing that income taxes were created by a legitimate process. Au contraire! Of course, you pay them, because you fear the government. Our Founders warned us that this would happen. When we fear the government, there is tyranny.

    Please view this video and share your opinions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XebGuqD5R0
     
  2. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Values are not economics.
     
    eathen lord and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    Harry Reid says it is. The IRS has stated that this is so. But, try NOT paying them. I guess that means we "voluntarily" go to jail, too. Yeah, right! Taxation is SUPPOSED to be voluntary. But, government wants to take as much money from us as possible, because that's how they control us. It isn't about paying for government services. Everything they collect goes to pay the federal deficit. And, if the federal reserve (NOT a federal agency) can print money anytime it deems necessary, why do they have to tax US? Why not just make more money?

    Remember what I said before, wages are compensation for your labor. To tax your wages, is to tax your labor. Taxing your labor is slavery. Economics 101. Income is money earned on your investments. Different can of worms.

    Please view this video and share your thoughts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XebGuqD5R0
     
  4. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    How many of these threads will people post?

    If you don't want to pay taxes, renounce your citizenship and move. You aren't being forced to live in this country. Good luck finding a country with no taxes and a high standard of living, however.
     
  5. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    It's theft, and kokesh very well illustrates that taxation, legality and the social contract isn't as noble as we'd like it to be. Theft, as in taking something which doesn't belong to you, is one definition. Then there's of course the legal definition, which obviously doesn't include taxation. Yes, yes, it's theft, and perhaps it's immoral. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting for what to eat, and legality is just what the majority has accepted. it's not noble, but it is justified, and it is needed. Quite frankly, I don't care about the innitation of force, nor the arbitrary nature of legality, as long as society is stable and people are happy. the evil of taxation is necessary to make people more happy, for without government, there will be chaos.
     
  6. ErikBEggs

    ErikBEggs New Member

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    For starters, I'd learn what the "Federal deficit" means. A deficit isn't something that is "paid." Deficit just means revenues are less than expenditures.

    Taxation is a tool used to control inflation. Printing money continuously can cause hyperinflation. If the government didn't levy tax and merely printed for all of its expenditures, the people would simply demand more and more services. This would eventually lead to lack of production and social unrest. Why work if the government can just print and give you money? It kind of comes back around on your own argument.

    Actually slavery would be you not getting any compensation at all. You would be a piece of property that is bought and sold.
     
  7. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    A currency is defunct if not taxed.
     
  8. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    If a currency isn't taxed then it's just paper. For a currency to have value it has to be in demand, and that requires taxation.
     
  9. PTPLauthor

    PTPLauthor Banned

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    Taxation is not theft. I have a hard time believing that anyone who honestly believes that taxation is theft is not an anarchist and thus very dangerous to the society at large. Without taxation, governments cannot function. Without government, civilization becomes unworkable. The United States learned that lesson under the Articles of Confederation when the federal government was relegated to little more than a beggar on the street, having to beg alms from the States to be able to meet even the most rudimentary obligations of governance.

    I do believe that the limits to taxation do exist, and that a government should only tax as much as needed to balance the government's books. Governments should not make profits, but at the same time, governments should not have to borrow continuously to meet its needs.
     
  10. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    I'm right here. I believe it's theft, and I'm not an anarchist. how do you handle me? *wink* *wink*
     
  11. PTPLauthor

    PTPLauthor Banned

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    You're not thinking it through. Where else would the government get the money for public services like roads, defense, and emergency services? Take one of those three away, and the function of government becomes so hampered as to be very close to governmental collapse. Advocating government collapse is tantamount to anarchism.
     
  12. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    What?! Currency doesn't have to be something created by the private federal reserve. Congress is supposed to create our currency. Nonetheless, gold is in demand. So is silver. They do NOT require taxation. I have no idea where you're coming from on this; but, you are obviously misinformed.
     
  13. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Why do you still think I'm an anarchist? Taxation is theft, but I still support taxation because we need a government. One can think taxation is theft, and therefore always oppose it, or one can deny that it's theft, or one can realise that it's theft but still realise that it's necessary.
     
  14. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    The absence of government IS anarchy. Oxford American Dictionary: Belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

    It's always a wiser course of action to do the homework, before making uninformed statements.

    It would also be wise to consider that we do NOT have equality in America. Congress legislates laws that they are exempt from having to obey. Many have been given waivers on obamacare. It's nothing less than a political tool to tax the enemies of the state ... just like many of our other laws. DO THE HOMEWORK! The "protected class" work and live in the district of criminals!

    Where would the government get the money for public services? User fees. Our military is the ONLY service you mentioned that is enumerated in the Constitution, which was created to limit the power of the federal government.

    It's funny how many people don't understand that our taxes are being used COMPLETELY to pay the interest on our debt ... a debt that will be passed on to our children and grandchildren.
     
  15. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Capitalism is theft, so what.
     
  16. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    Necessary? Taxes are necessary? Perhaps, they are, to pay for that which YOU desire. However, I DO NOT DESIRE THESE TAXES. I'm for user fees. If I want a service, I will pay for it. If I don't, I don't pay. So, let's DO talk about equality, huh? I have two children. They were homeschooled and privately-schooled. No one paid for this. My choice. If you want to have children ... YOUR choice. YOU pay for their schooling. It cuts both ways.
     
  17. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Yes, it is theft plain and simple. It is in no way justified and a functioning government can be achieved without it. This is the next evolution in the Age of Enlightenment that was began by such figures as Bacon,Locke, Voltaire and Sir Isaac Newton.
     
  18. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    The intent of our Founders was that the States be taxed ... NOT individuals. The 16th Amendment was never ratified. TRUTH! Therefore, allowing the feds to come into our states to confiscate the fruits of our labor was a violation of our rights. Wages are compensation for our labor. Taxing our wages is taxing our labor. Taxing our labor is slavery. Those revenues only go to pay the interest on our debt. That is a debt that will be passed on to YOUR children and grandchildren.
     
  19. My Fing ID

    My Fing ID Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Honestly I have no problem paying for the goods and services I use. I use the police and fire departments, though passively. I use the roads. I use our national defense. I use our court system. I don't mind paying for these things, and if I was paying for the things I use I would have no issue.

    The problem is that it doesn't end there. I'm not just paying for our national defense, I'm paying for offensive campaigns in third world countries and for the governments ability to draft me into one of these wars at any time. More over I'm paying to have myself and every else monitored by our defense organizations. I'm paying to have someone take nude scans of everyone who boards an airplane. I'm paying for the police to arrest and jail me if I use drugs other than alcohol, tobacco, and a few other legal drugs. I'm paying the police to jail me if I want to pay for sex. Basically I'm paying not only for services used, but for my own oppression. At that point I would say it becomes theft. It's not just a disagreement with the law, but the fact that the law stretches well beyond where it should exist. Pointlessly searching and monitoring people as well as arbitrarily telling them what they can and cannot do are not valid uses of government; not a government of free people at least.
     
  20. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Luckily, no, it doesn't. You will be taxed and your money will be used for many things which you don't like. And if refuse, you will be forced. See, what you think isn't really relevant at all. it doesn't work like that. The world works as such that we take a bit of your money and do with it what we think is good.

    Also, you should use the quote function as it makes it easier to understand who you're replying to.
     
  21. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    Corporatism is theft ... NOT capitalism. KNOW THE DIFFERENCE! Corporatism is the precursor to fascism. Corporate welfare placed us on that fast-track to fascism. Capitalism is the free market. In a free market, YOU, the consumer has a choice. Under government confiscation, there is no choice. YOU, as the other half of the free market equation, can purchase ... or not purchase. If the free market isn't behaving in a fair and honest way, YOU are responsible for boycotting. Boycotting is the most effective way to balance things out. Government does NOT protect us from corporatism. In fact, they take our hard-earned money and use it to pay off their campaign contributors in the corporate world, through tax advantages, allowing monopolies, waivers and bailouts. How's THAT working for you?
     
  22. JeffLV

    JeffLV Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If one subscribes to a theory of social contracts, then no taxation is not theft, it's part of the social contract. That said, one of the biggest flaws with this theory is the practical impossibility of choosing to live outside of the social contract... There is no reasonable choice otherwise. This is becoming less and less so as all of the natural resources are being bought up and controlled by entities that are part of the "social contract", so you have no choice but to live within it. We are not living in a state of nature upon which the theory of natural rights was founded. With this in mind, I might describe the ownership of natural resources as just as much of a "theft" as that of taxation, if we are to appeal to a more natural order of things. Pretty much the only choice we have is to live in a cooperative community, which does require concessions. The only thing that helps us distinguish between "theft" and "contractual obligations" is basic principles that we are meant to subscribe to, of fairness and equal protection, products of the veil of ignorance that let us know that our decisions are fair and supportive of a mutually beneficial contract. That's all we have left now, since the state of nature is behind us.
     
  23. Tori Higgs

    Tori Higgs New Member

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    Perhaps you don't care about the initiation of force, because you haven't yet been on the receiving end of it.
     
  24. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Taxes in the U.S. are not fair, but they're legal. Theft is defined as depriving someone of their property illegally, so no — taxation is not theft. Imposing the terms of a legal contract on someone, whether that's taxation or repossession is not the same as legally converting a person into property.

    As much as I sympathize frustration about our current tax laws, it's still unacceptable to compare it to the brutality and immorality of the institution of slavery. Even if you're joking, you're crossing a line similar to Godwin's rule there.



     
  25. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    Not even remotely close.
     

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