Is the economy unfair to most Americans?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Bluesguy, Mar 10, 2020.

?

Is the economy unfair to most Americans?

  1. Yes

    33.3%
  2. No

    66.7%
  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fox News just ran this polling question they put to voters in three states and here are the numbers that say yes

    Missouri 79%
    Michigan 75%
    Mississippi 74%

    They said previous have ranked from a high of 85% Iowa and low of 68% in Virginia.

    The question is with our economy being the most free the most opportunity and full employment and rising incomes, the lowest rising the fastest income in existence. This is a great mobility time for workers with a glut of jobs.

    So what is so unfair to most Americans. It's been fair to me, of course I have taken advantage of it both job wise and investment wise and didn't expect someone to hand me things.
     
  2. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    1. 60% of Americans can't find $1000 from savings in an emergency.
    2. The job market is becoming increasingly polarised:

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=44467&cpage=1#comment-66728

    In the past, I have demonstrated that the proportion of jobs in the total employment in sectors that pay below-average pay has increased.
    But at that level of aggregation, we are unable to say whether these jobs in question were high-pay or low-pay.
    The next table helps to expand on that understanding.
    It shows the net job losses (in the downturn) and net job gains (in the recovery to date) for the major occupations in the BLS classification........



    Further, while real wages grew marginally, they lag behind labour productivity growth, which means there is scope for faster wages growth without triggering inflationary impulses.

    And the polarisation between high-pay and low-pay continues.

    So getting workers into paid employment is one thing.
    Paying them decent wages and providing them with secure jobs is another.

    *Note: U6 = 7% also understates the reality, because the people who have given up looking for work don't register in the stats.
    ie the real involuntary un/underemployment is c 10%.

    Btw, 'socialism' is a philosophy of shared prosperity....BUT it cannot be implemented because it runs foul of the instinctive greed in all of us (which is why Bernie will lose, now that the 'rubber is hitting the road' in the ballot box).

    But there is an alternative to the disaster of neoliberalism; study Abba Lerner's functional finance, in which the state funds itself independently of the private sector...



     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  3. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Life isn't fair. Every country has rich and poor and far more poor than rich. People are born with different levels of intelligence, skills, gifts, motivation and sometimes pure luck. A capitalist Republic is about the only form of government which allows for a broad middle-class which can achieve a significant level of comfort and security according to their skills, talents and willingness to strive.
     
  4. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense.
    1. There are plenty of successful social democracies in the world.
    1. The middle class in the US is shrinking - everyone knows that.

    As the title of the chart suggests, America's middle class has been shrinking over time, from 61% of US households in 1971 to only 50% in 2015, when middle class is defined as households earning between two-thirds and twice the median household income. Jan 31, 2018

    https://qz.com/1592826/the-middle-class-is-shrinking-generation-by-generation/

    "In rich countries, the middle class is getting smaller and smaller, generation by generation"


    Meanwhile, the top 20% own 90% of total household wealth, while the bottom 20% have negative wealth ie they OWE $6000 on average...

    [Of course, the reason why 60% of the population can't find $1000 from savings in an emergency, is related to rising costs, as well as income].

    And you are happy.
    You indeed take greed - which we all possess - to an unprecedented level of art....according to your "skills, talents and willingness to strive".
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    As I noted wages are on the rise and more so for the lowest income groups than the highest. What's not fair about that? It part that is going up because of that improved productivity but there is nothing to say they are tit-for-tat. There is a GLUT of jobs good paying jobs what is unfair about that. All you have to do is take advantage of it it's not going to be handed to you on a sliver platter. And yes we register in a stat those not looking and it is improving the LFPR has shown an uptick after the HUGE fall during Obama and Democrat policies.

    So what exactly is "unfair". That they can't find $1000 in savings? That's bad budgeting nor an unfair economy.
     
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  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Who have capitalist economies.

    Everyone knows it's growing quite well now and the lower incomes are benefiting from the rise in wages more than any other group and there is a glut of good paying jobs out there for them to improve their financial lot.

    So what is unfair?


    Most young workers are going to have a negative wealth as they enter the workforce and buy house and cars while most older workers will be making more have paid off their houses and cars and have accumulated wealth all their lives.

    What's unfair about that. Do you think a person entering the workforce today has a right to the same wealth and lack of debt I have after working over 40 years?

    Yes I am happy. Who do you think is not greedy? Who are these benevolent angels who will make things fair using your wealth and money? The most successful economies are those who allow the most people to act in their own self interest and pursue their own wealth and income.

    Free to Choose. Ever read it?
     
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  7. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I didn't have $1,000 for an emergency I wouldn't have time to take a poll about it.

    cant talk dude, I'm running late for my third job!
     
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  8. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    Business and economics nowadays are so fickle, so many factors are at stake like supply and demand, policies, etc, and even health related issue like we presently encountered which really affected the economy. It's good for the companies to have safety nets to mitigate any unforeseen downturns, but on the other hand it should not be exploited to gain more profit. If a company earns more then it should give more if it earns far less than more then settle with the minimum allowable. A balance between the entrepreneurs and the working sector should be established to maintain both health in terms of survival and decent living standards.
     
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  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    How much is earning "more than it should"? Do you make sure you don't invest your retirement savings in companies that earn too much?
     
  10. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/whose-wages-are-rising-and-why/

    "Over the last 40 years, wage growth for typical American workers has been extraordinarily weak. The typical worker has certainly gained some ground—especially over the last 25 years—and different inflation adjustments can make those gains appear somewhat larger. But by any measure, wages at the middle have grown more slowly than at the top and more slowly than the economy overall. In addition, fewer Americans are earning more than their parents did at similar ages, perhaps explaining discontent with the economy despite the consistent economic growth and low unemployment rates. Many presidential candidates highlight this discontent.

    Addressed above. You are unaware of the big changes over generations, as outlined above.

    Good

    We are all greedy

    Using my wealth and money? No: rather using the capacity of the public sector to finance itself, alongside wealth creation in profit-driven (greedy) private markets. (I must start the MMT thread...)

    "You are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken…."

    Not my idea of a "successful economy".
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We're talking now

    And nothing wrong that we act in our own greed better than someone elses.

    U
    Oh yeah it will be with your money, the public sector can't fund itself it has to do so through taxes. So who are these benevolent little angels who will take your wealth and money and take care of you better than they take care of themselves?

    "
    Yes most Democrat run cities are like that and the more socialist they are the more they are. Look a the other socialist countries around the world, Cuba, Venezuela.
     
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  12. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    It all depends upon the profits that big companies earned, shares can be given in yearly bonuses if there is really a scheme to share.
     
  13. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    But how much is too much for a company to earn?
     
  14. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    It's unfair to no one.

    We each have the same freedom to make our own opportunities.
    Thats as fair as it will ever get.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
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  15. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    What is being overlooked in most people's assessment of failure and success/ success and failure is the main culprit is the FEDERAL RESERVE BANKING SYSTEM which creates booms & busts; this is a banker themed economy which produced societal trends. Bankers thrive on wars which produces the "haves" and "have nots";
    feudalism. A similar feudalism read in high school history books. The Republican versus Democrat and Conservative versus Liberal dichotomies pushed by media entities only distract the population(s) of nations, and yes there are national leaders that encourage and manipulate their own populations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
    Pollycy and a better world like this.
  16. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I have started a thread entitled:

    "MMT: overcoming the Left-Right political divide", here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mmt-overcoming-the-political-divide.569365/

    Which explains why government does not need to tax in order to spend.....I know, that thought will freak most people out...see my reply to Giftedone, here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...n-first-quarter-of-fiscal-year.567954/page-16

    on page 16, post #378.
     
  17. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    They’ll call you a Commie!
     
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  18. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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  19. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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  20. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    Well, enough for the company to sustain business and to grow but non for profiteering.
     
  21. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    I don't.

    But I notice you ignored my question, with your troll-like 'taxation is theft' nonsense, that is the fall-back position of many on this board. (Beats having to think, I suppose).

    However, there is an alternative to the divisive "How will we pay for it" question.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mmt-overcoming-the-political-divide.569365/
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Im having trouble answering this.

    Regulations create a disparity in certain areas of the market that make it nearly impossible to get in to without massive startup costs that most normal people could never afford. These regulations are of course not directly 'the economy's' fault, but they do often exist as a result of big companies lobbying govt to regulate their smaller competition out of business, which is definitely unfair.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Taxation may not be theft, but overtaxation is and rich Americans are overtaxed and already payong their fsir share and government spending is way too high.

    If there is a burden in your heart for the less fortunate that is your responsibility not mine and not society in general's.
    There are hundreds of great charities probably thousands that do far more good than any government agency could.

    The government should be focused on paying off our debt.
     
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  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Give me a number it's your claim don't you know what it is? What is "profiteering" how much profit it too much? Do you make sure you invest your retirement money into companies that don't make too much?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  25. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    https://www.npr.org/2019/09/10/7595...rts-poverty-rate-down-but-millions-still-poor

    I'm sure that with our hapless fellow Americans living below the poverty line the economy is really unfair, 38 million is not small.
     

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