Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

For you, me, and Adam to answer this question; we need the knowledge of good and evil.

Adam may have needed what he was denied by Yahweh to know if the tree of the knowledge of all things, is good or evil to eat from. As scriptures say, he was mentally and morally blind without it.

You and I cannot see any better than Adam could when our mental eyes are blind on issues and without knowledge of them.

It seems that Yahweh put Adam in a catch 22. Damned to being mentally blind and as bright as a brick and unable to reproduce or condemned to death if he educated himself.

Regards
DL

 

The whole affair was rigged from the beginning.

22 And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live for ever”—

 

Adam was created to follow God's direction. He didn't need more information to do that.

Instead, Adam decided that he himself needed to be the arbiter of good and evil - that following God's direction was not sufficient.

Isn't the decision that god's direction isn't sufficient a root of sin (as defined as that which is counter to god's direction)?

 

That idea is repeated in the story about the girls of Shiloh being abducted in Judges 21:15-25 and summed up in Judges 21:25.

 

Sure it was rigged. All hero myths are.

Adam was the hero that Christianity used as a fall guy instead of a hero, even while singing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

Such contradictions show how little Christians think of their ridiculous ideology.

Regards
DL

 

In this case, god was directing us to stay stupid and under his thumb.

If a father, would you want that for your child? Or would you want him to be like you and then some?

Are you like Yahweh or are you better?

Regards
DL

 

So are those that don’t ascribe to the Abrahamic Religion foundations with the ‘Apple’ myth evil, incapable of doing Good?

 

The Genesis allegory does identify an important and lasting deficit that humans have.

You can make whatever wild and totally unsubstantiable guesses you want to concerning god's motivations.in creating humans this way. The Bible itself says mankind can not know God's motivations - a pretty darn safe bet.


The real issue here, the actual bottom line is that we DO have to live with the human nature that is described in Genesis.

 

In religion, God really is the full and complete definition of what is sin. Suggesting that not sinning is a matter of being under God's thumb hits me as an idea that really has no value.

And ALL gods are accepted on faith - not knowledge. That doesn't mean humans have no knowledge. It just means we aren't rivals of god - regardless of how much we want to be.

 

[QUOTE="<snipped> It seems that Yahweh put Adam in a catch 22. Damned to being mentally blind and as bright as a brick and unable to reproduce or condemned to death if he educated himself. DL[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Why would an "all loving" god set up his children to feel pain and heartache?

 

I have no idea if that is a reasonable reading and assessment of God's mind, however, if that is the case, we have upgraded and its been replaced by misdirection, misinformation, spin and outright propaganda by statists.

 

I see no evidence that "misinformation" is limited to our government (vs. all the other sources) or to government in general (including throughout human history).

 

Given that the mainstream religions, like Christianity and Islam, are homophobic and misogynous, --- and have institutionalized the hate of equality of all souls, --- I would say that the non-religious are more likely to be more moral than the religious.

Statistics tend to agree as the less religion is a country, the more peacful and law abiding it is.

Just look at the U.S., a Christian nation, and wonder why it leads the world in jail and abortion stats and is always at war, be it against another country or against it's own non-white population.

Regards
DL

 

I agree. It is as close to perfect as I can imagine.

Genesis, when read the Christian way, sure does make man stupid as compared to god. It also shows a god who is more evil than any decent man can be.

I do not see the deficit you do.

The bible says we have to sin and that that is bad, when in reality, we have to sin, and it is good.

Even Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan. They just forget why and are too dumbed down to be able to do decent apologetics.

Mother Nature sings, if she could, the same hymn as she also knows that sin/doing evil to each other, --- is necessary to our continuing evolution.

Regards
DL

 

I kind of agree, from the position of knowing that we have defeated Yahweh and his vile immoral ways.

Yahweh is no longer a rival. He has been soundly defeated.

Regards
DL

 

Exactly. Why would an "all loving" god set up his children to feel pain and heartache?[/QUOTE]

I hear you.

I do not mind challenging my children's thinking, but to set them up to fail goes over the line.

Strange that the Jews see Original Virtue in Eden, while Christians see Original Sin.

Christians usurped Yahweh from the Jews, but not the ideology that came with him. They reversed it.

Regards
DL

 

True, not to forget the lying preachers.

Regards
DL

 

Well, I think it's more that Genesis says we are inately sinful - not that we have to sin. There is a difference there, I think.

The choice to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a powerful allegory. To me, it points to pride and self interest - flaws that man is powerless to overcome.

The "seven deadly sins" (which aren't actually stated as such in the Bible) arei interesting to consider. They don't include acts of commision.

They point to man as sinful before ever taking an action - because the very composition of man is inheriently sinful.

Really, I think it only gets confusing when one tries to mix in the concept of god - why he created eden in the first place, his methods for dealing with mankind, etc. Did his purpose change when mankind came out flawed? God certainly changed his tune about Adam and Eve living in Eden. What did God THINK was going to happen? What did God think was going to happen afterwards? To me, this all points to Genesis being allegorical - not meant to be analyzed so carefully that we start making assumptions about the intent of an undetectable superpower.

Anyway, I'm an atheist. I have respect, including for Genesis which seems like an incredibly early and pretty darn accurate assessment of human weakness. But, ...

 

One can't claim there is defeat without knowing what the purpose was that got defeated.

Regardless, Christianity isn't going anywhere, so I'd prefer to focus on the numerous statements of Jesus that make our duty to fellow man so hugely important and on the fact that religion doesnt trump science in terms of determining how this physical universe works. Science isn't anti-religion. It just answers very different questions using methodology that has proven highly reliable.

 

I won't play the "godless game" long with you, but I will answer the way I see it. The knowledge of good and evil is good. Because with that knowledge we have choice. Out of that choice we have the ability to "Love or Reject". That choice is necessary for true relationship.

 

As an Anthropologist/Archaeologist I have studied the development of the cultural phenomena of spiritual belief systems throughout history and even lived with peoples that do not share in spiritual belief systems driven by the doctrines propagated by an organized religion. Two major things I have observed. All cultures, regardless of spiritual belief, share an understanding of moral standards within the context of their culture, and most spiritual belief systems are a reflection of a culture’s social/political system.

Just as an aside, one group lived with a bit, the Guahibo indigenous people of southern Venezuela and eastern plains of Columbia, had no concept, as westerners, of theft. It initially didn’t make sense to me, until, as a Guhibian friend explained to me... if someone needs something like a knife or axe or some other tool for a task, someone has made, they take and use it. Why not? If one is needed and not available, any one knows how to go to the forrest and make one. So why get upset and disturbed the harmony of the village? But, later in my stay, I noted some in the village preparing to defend their village from an attack from another group they thought was in the wind. When I inquired, why would they be attacked... for their possessions? Was it a reason to fight for what they could easily make again? I was informed, there were only two reasons to raid and fight; the first was to steal women and the second to avenge the death of a clan member (I later found many of the women in the village, wives of some of the men, were captives from raids on other villages... the practice was as old as local memory an from an objective point of view was a practice that served to maintain genetic diversity, that along with a practice of trading for women from other villages. One thing I noted, much of their rules of morality seemed designed to maintain group cohesion and harmony.

 

Where you see weakness, I see strength.

You said "it points to pride and self interest - flaws that man is powerless to overcome."

You see a flaw while I see motivators.

We are led by our selfish gene that tries to insures our best possible survival. If working well, we should take pride in it as that pride motivates us to continue our selfish path that drags others up with us to our next evolutionary step.

You see evil where I see good.

You see the Christian way and I see the Jewish and Gnostic Christian way.

If you do not compete and cause evil to the loser of those competitions, your evolution has stopped and so has your thinking.

Regards
DL

 

Science is anti-religion where religion does not mind it's own fantasy business, just as math is against the stupid notion of a man being 100% man and 100% god.

Regards
DL

 

Barbaric laws that were greatly improved by humans.

Immoral Christians have yet to catch up.

Regards
DL

 

Should A & E have been punished for doing the right thing and ignoring Yahweh?

Regards
DL