Is the True Religion No Religion? Or all religions? Or just morality?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by jaktober, May 22, 2014.

  1. Tram Law

    Tram Law Banned

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    I wish I had an answer for that.

    But you see, I am not a big fan of the masses.

    I personally believe people should be allowed to go their own way.
     
  2. jaktober

    jaktober Member

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    [video=youtube_share;6ul-cZyuYq4]http://youtu.be/6ul-cZyuYq4[/video]
     
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  3. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    You claim He said the second Great Commandment "connects them all", when the verse you quote says no such thing. Moreover, common sense makes it plain that if any single commandment "connects them all" it's the first, not the second.

    I'm no stranger to the Gospels. I know of nothing therein that supports your contention, so you're going to have to be quite a bit more specific.

    One who presumes to teach needs credibility, which he cannot have if he bases his teaching on a falsehood such as I have exposed - at least until such time as he either acknowledges his mistake or demonstrates that it is in fact not a falsehood.
     
  4. jaktober

    jaktober Member

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    My apologies. Paul was the one who specifically said, "The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    Since Paul was an apostle, and since Christ did say, ""Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law", it does suggest that my reading of Christ's words is, at least, a valid (and supported by his apostle) reading. That "The Law" refers to a greater commandment and that Paul refers to "the Law" as that specific commandment that "summed up" (I used the word "connected") the others.

    I used the word "connect" rather than "summed up" - and refered to the writing of an Apostle (Paul in Romans) who was taught by Christ, rather than a direct Quote of Christ written by an Apostle, those direct quotes written by Matthew and Mark, refered to "the Law" and "no commandment greater."

    So, it's up to you if you think what I said was an incorrect reading of what Matthew, Mark and Paul wrote, as to what Christ taught.

    How I read it is that the worship of God can be summed up as "'Love your neighbor as yourself.' based on that commandment being directly refered to by Christ as being "The Law" and that Paul refered to "The Law" as having "summed up" all other Commandments.

    I am not trying to teach so much as to discuss, and to share my reading of these texts, and the concepts described in them. The socratic method is a means of making a discussion more effective and to cut out fallicies (such as to emotion appeal, or personal attacks, or mis-direction; such as using critique of semantics or grammar or spelling to evade the content).

    So, back to the original topic: "The Golden Rule" is acknowledge by almost every religion. How do we cut through the aspects of religion that distract the moral dialouge away from that unifying theory? When only Laws built off that unified concept can properly serve a moral, civil, society.
     
  5. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    So when He told the pharisees they were of their father the devil, was He obeying "the Law", yes or no?
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is the command that Christian church leaders often like to ignore. The Golden Rule.

    Matt 7

    James 2 is another example of the same rule and it is called "The Royal Law"

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Golden rule is also inherent in Social Contract theory and as such forms part of the basis of most legal systems.
     
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  7. jaktober

    jaktober Member

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    You are refering to this correct?

    It reminds me of this quote:

    [How I read this...] Christ was telling them the reason they could not understand what he was saying was because they were following the Devil, or rather, they were following the Lie (rather than the truth). If you are being selfish, and following a self-centered ideology, then the "truth" (that God is Love and that you should treat others as you would be treated, and all of other God's truths/laws) won't make sense.

    The context of this is that Christ is having a conversation with a group of people that are both trying to figure out how to kill him while maintaining that they are the "sons of Abraham" and that their father is God:

    So Christ is answering their question. Basically stating, [if you are trying to kill me then you are not follow God but the Devil]. That is why he is telling them if they accept him they will be set free, instead, they do not accept him, and their reaction is to kill him, because his word (the Truth) threatens their ego.

    That's my reading.

    Do you believe Christ was real? Was God? Was Perfect? Does he have to be perfect in the story in order for any of the morals told in the story to be true and applicable?
     
  8. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    I don't see a yes or a no. Until I do, the conversation will not proceed.
     
  9. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are going to get a lot of flack from this, but it is a relevant point. Atheist too often get so plugged into the anti god aspect of their belief pattern that they forget all other aspects of religion.

    But if we have faith in all of the good aspects of religion, (because there is no absolute objective proof that a policy of "I protect my own, and those too weak to do the same are not my concern unless I may benefit from their weakness." is not the best one for each individual.) how can we try to propose that religion is all bad?

    In a natural atheistic state humans fall into a predatory social pattern as often as not, so an imposed ethical ideology (not necessarily a theistic one) is a basic building block for civilization. It is important to understand that not all religions are theistic, buddhism simply holds the teachings of buddha in reverence. So "religion" is a partner for building civilization and some sort of shared and broadly accepted ethical framework may be necessary for it to progress.
     
  10. jaktober

    jaktober Member

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    Yes, let's get back to the original conversation.

     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I personally am of the opinion that modern near death experience accounts are much more easy to understand than the Bible.

    The basic principle of "Universal Salvation" actually has an application to job creation, disease prevention, literacy, health care and every aspect of human life and culture.


    http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html#a04h

    Our beliefs regarding the afterlife have a rather strange parallel to our beliefs regarding economics and a social safety net.

    The people who concentrate too much on some sort of heaven vs hell/ saved vs lost scenario…. tend to be content with a situation of extreme wealth vs grinding poverty?!

    Those of us who lean heavily toward some form of Universal Salvation also see hope that a new and vastly better society and culture can be produced over the coming years, decades and centuries.

    Howard Storm:
    http://www.near-death.com/storm.html#a04
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jaktober… I believe that you have the potential to become like an actor… who auditions for one of the largest roles in all history…. as elaborated on by a man from Uganda who I believe had a near death experience.

    King Cyrus of the ancient Medo-Persian Empire gave freedom of religion to all 127 provinces and he also financed the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple.


    For the record… I am attempting to take my own advice… and I am in a sense auditioning for the role as well…. I would be honoured to compete with you Sir… but in a somewhat cooperative manner… because I will love it if I can assist you to do an even better job of playing out your role in life!

    https://apps.facebook.com/forumforpages/180898612019485/6d0e6b1a-c408-4589-b800-9cc294039ec0/0
    Canadian support for rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple Complex can alter Middle East political formula.

    Is there a way in which growing Canadian support for the Jewish people in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple could be combined with a major peace initiative to the Islamic nations?
    Would Prime Minister Stephen Harper who has control of parliament for three more years, perhaps be more interested in the alternative idea of investing in turning deserts green than he has been in some sort of carbon tax or cap and trade system?

    I think so:

    Proposal for the creation of a Quebec provincial currency unit to save coastal communities from threat of rising ocean levels.

    I am advocating investing BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in turning deserts green all over the world as a method of combatting climate change. The Islamic nations have so much to gain from this initiative, if it becomes popular, that they would probably be more willing to give something significant to Canada's Jewish community.

    I believe that control of the Jerusalem Temple Mount by the newly formed Jerusalem Sanhedrin and the right for Jews to rebuild and use their Third Temple to offer up sacrifices in the exact manner in which Moses/Moshe told them to do is something that a high percentage of Jewish Canadians would deeply appreciate.

    I am of the belief that ancient Jewish, Christian and Islamic scriptures have ARTISTIC value that can be translated into both DIPLOMATIC and ECONOMIC VALUE. Wars can be prevented through books and film projects based on sacred scriptures that help us to better understand people raised within a totally different culture than us.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Near death experiencer Mellen Benedict was shown that more light was coming into all belief systems.


    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a09
     
  14. thinks99

    thinks99 New Member

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    Religion is subjective.
     

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