Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Aleksander Ulyanov, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    That has nothing to do with anything.
    I know Muslims and x- muslims.

    I am not discussing Muslims.
    I am discussing Islam.

    and just because you know nice muslims, does not change Islam.
     
    xwsmithx likes this.
  2. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    Well then we are done. If you cannot grasp the points I was making then it is useless to engage any further.
     
  3. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    I do grasp the points you are making.
    You know muslims, and maybe are one yourself.
    You are claiming all of Islam is based on your experience with Muslims.
    I study Islamic doctrine, the written words of the Qur'an and sunnah.

    and all Muslims have these words, they are cast in stone.
    and weather muslims know them or not is not important.
    They are already brainwashed into what they think Islam is,
    and will come running at the call of their Iman.

    If these Muslims were as good as you claim, they would be publicly condemning muhammed,
    and the existing doctrine of the religion.


    Go to the site, Faithfreedom.org.
    These are Muslims I have respect for, X-Muslims that are telling the world.
    I have zero respect for a Muslim in a free country.
    Nobody is holding a sword over their heads, they do not have to stay in the cult.
    They are doing so of their own free will.

    No different that a member of the KKK or Nazi party.
    If you are a member, I have every right to assume you know what the cult is all about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  4. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there were Germans during WWII who were harmless too.
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Mormonism is Christianity so now you're not right. If you said Islam had more in common with Catholicism then Mormonism dead thin well you would be wrong still because Muslims don't worship Jesus.
     
  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no. I've read that muslims even recognize Jesus as Divine but yes, they don't worship him, that's true. They worship Allah. The Trinity is a really bad thing to them, as it looks like polytheism and polytheists aren't "People of the Book" and killable out of hand.
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Bloody Troll

    Not everybody in any religion believes totally in everything in that religion. Religion is a matter of culture and what is really a sort of nationalism far more than anything else, particularly nowadays. The major reason anybody believes in any religion at all is that the religion and the government go hand in hand to support each other and always have and that is IMO a major difference between us and the muslim countries Only there can you still be jailed for not being religious. Mind, we STILL look upon religion as supporting our culture and we still have lots of *******s who think religion should be the most important part of your life but with us they aren't in charge of the government too.
     
  8. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    How do you explain the growth of Christianity in China, where it is severely persecuted by the government? Christianity has grown from 1 million at the time of the Revolution to 100,000,000 today. There are more Christians there than Communist Party members.
     
  9. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    The Reformation brought Christianity back to it's roots, the roots of Islam are just as bloody as today.
     
  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Not directed at me, but will answer. I hate the evil done in the name of Islam, the 25,000 Islamic terror attacks since 9/11 and the daily ongoing persecution of 'infidels' throughout the world. There is no Islamic nation with freedom of religion/conscience as we know it in the Judeo/Christian West.

    Yes, Morocco. The ones trying to sell you something were nice enough.

    Do you know any evangelical Christians? You seem to despise them, calling them evil, etc.

    Anyone who thinks Muhammad is the perfect man is part of the problem.

    Biblical prohibitions against homosexual activity are throughout the Bible, stating that is not persecution. Persecution is throwing gays off roofs, Muslim-style. Why don't you try to organize a Gay Pride march in Saudi Arabia and see what happens? If people like Jerry Falwell Jr. are evil for thinking homosexuality immoral, aren't Muslims evil too for the same reason, including your friends?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  11. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    They don't, they say Jesus was a prophet, not divine.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I'll bow to your superior knowledge, but I HAVE heard different. I was surprised at it too
     
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    If Falwell et al just said they were immoral that would be bad enough. The problem is that lots of Falwell's followers (not Falwell, or anybody on anything but local radio) are saying we OUGHT to throw Gays off rooftops and the only reason we don't is that there's this Anti-Christian conspiracy keeping us from being the proper Christians we all want to be.

    The way you talk about Evangelicals makes me think you may be one. Are you? If you're just a guy who doesn't like terrorism and beheading and burning people alive that's one thing. But if you're what I call a "Deus Vulture", if you're the sort who honestly believes the root of all evil is in Islam while roses grow from Christian butts, then you are indeed something else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Bull hockey too. Go look up the Lord's Resistance Army. They're just the worst of several. ALL religion has, thank god, become less murderous in the 21s century but they're are still untold millions who think Christ wanted us all killing each other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  15. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I only know of one person making that ridiculous statement, and Falwell isn't included. Jesus would say to a repentant homosexual the same thing He did to the woman caught in adultery, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more."

    Yes. May I ask what your world view is?

    I'm strongly opposed to the mayhem from Islam, and the threat to our Western way of life, and I think Islam is a lie from Satan (with fruits to match) and that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
     
  16. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    "The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), also known as the Lord's Resistance Movement, is a rebel group and HETERODOX Christian group" Wikipedia

    Heterodox: Not conforming with accepted or orthodox standards or beliefs.

    How is this group Christian, and what teaching of Jesus are they following? You don't judge a philosophy by it's misuse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    For Christians Jesus is God not just a prophet.

    Also there are people like Buddhists Hindus Jewish and atheists which Christians do not view as killable.

    So that's a huge difference.
     
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Or right, I understand, when muslims do it they are following orthodox Islam, when Christians do it they are rogues
    How do you deal with the thorns? That's a sensitive spot, it must be hard with the long-stemmed species.
     
  19. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    And what does he do to those are UNrepentant. Seven stories or ten?

    My world view?

    "Now the world is vast and large
    Seven seas from marge to marge
    And filled with vast and various kinds of man
    And the wildest dreams of Kew
    Are the facts of Katmandu
    And what's sin in Perth is chaste in Martaban"

    Rudyard Kipling

    And also:
    "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ. think it possible you may be mistaken"

    Oliver Cromwell

    And on the world itself;
    "To see the world in a grain of send
    And a heaven in a wild flower
    Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    And Eternity in an hour."

    William Blake
     
  20. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    Where?
    According to what?
    There is no such principle and no verse is replaced by another.
    Their Lord means Allah as He is the Lord of the worlds, whether you like it or not.
    Muslims treated Jews very well so long as the Jews treated Muslims very well. Where is there 'jew hate' in the Koran?

    Islam doesn't 'stem' from the bible and muslims don't believe in the bible. They believe in the Gospel which is not even found in the bible as whole.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  21. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the site.

    Robert Spencer, https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/03/...to-prayer-has-asked-allah-to-destroy-the-jews

    Naskh' (نسخ) is an Arabic word usually translated as "abrogation". In Islamic legal exegesis (or tafsir), Naskh is a theory developed to resolve seemingly contradictory rulings of Islamic revelation by superseding or canceling the earlier revelation. In the widely recognized[1] and "classic" form of naskh,[2][3] an Islamic regulation/ruling (hukm) is abrogated in favor of another, but the text the hukm is based on is not eliminated.[4]

    The principle of abrogation of an older verse by a new verse in the Quran, or within the Hadiths is an accepted principle of all four Sunni maḏāhib or schools of fiqh (jurisprudence),[11] and was an established principle in Sharia by at least the 9th century.[12][13][14]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_%28tafsir%29


    Asked and answered above.

    Thanks for admitting it. The loony left in the West are convinced that Islam shares the same roots as Judaism and Christianity. But we know different, don't we?
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Moshty, post: 1070847266, member: 82798]
    Islam doesn't 'stem' from the bible and muslims don't believe in the bible. They believe in the Gospel which is not even found in the bible as whole.[/QUOTE]
    I would encourage you to explain further and perhaps work on correcting wiki.

    My Arabic language instructor was a devout Muslim as were others in the class, and they certainly accepted that Islam is properly included as an Abrahamic faith.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_in_Islam
     
  23. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    Thank you.
    You should know jihadwatch is anti-Islamic propaganda from the top to the bottom.

    I asked where Muslims are called to kill Jews and Christians. I assume you mean the answer is 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Which speaks of no such thing.
    Wikipedia is not a reliable source and this is obviously false as there is no abrogation in the Qur'an.
     
  24. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    Of course it's an abrahamic faith. I never said otherwise. I said Islam doesn't stem from the bible and that Muslims don't believe in the bible. The Bible is not considered revelation in Islam. It isn't mentioned in the Qur'an. Gospel (the revelation given to Isa) is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  25. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    I'm not willing to accept that jihadwatch is anti-Islamic propaganda unless you are willing to accept that the Koran is anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, anti-woman, anti-child, anti-human-rights propaganda.
     

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