Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

If you mean people who said they were following Christianity but weren't then yeh, I guess i am. Such people have been a big problem in Christianity throughout almost all its long history and remain so today.

 

I don't see that as refuting the Christian sharia that permeated the west through centuries.

You can't point to that whole era of the expanding and then dominating Christian church and decide their style of government was heretical.

Also, let's remember that it wasn't the Christian church that wanted secular government. The church was absolutely set on being the overarching seat of governmental power. They went to war over that. The advent of secular government came from other sources - individuals who may well have been Christians, but who were decidedly NOT in favor of the idea of religious rule.

 

His disciples sure did, when he washed their feet. You're right, I don't understand how you can be so ignorantly certain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_washing

 

Now that is interesting. Several things you need to understand before you talk religion with folks. Islam began more than half a millennia after Christianity. It Started in the same part of the world but it's history diverges drastically from that of Christianity. Judaism the other Abrahamic belief began more than a millennia before Christianity. About the only thing the three Abrahamic beliefs have in common is an ability to trace their roots back to the patriarch Abraham. Hence the name. Both in terms of tenets and dogma once you get more than skin deep the similarity ends.

The Bible's Old Testament is as close to a verbatim translation of the Hebrew Torah into the language of your choice as you can get. Last I checked the Bible has been translated into more than 120 languages more than a few of which prior to the Translation of the Bible had no written form. The New Testament is a the four gospels the Paulian Epistles, other letter Written by others of the Disciple Jesus half Brother James the Book Acts written by the Physician Luke. and Revelation Plus Hebrews whose authorship I do not, at the moment, recall.

From a theological perspective Islam is the ultimate external theology of works which is to say it is about perfecting the world. Islam is about the only one still extant unless the Thuggees are resurgent. Hinduism, other than the aforementioned Thuggees, Buddhism, Judaism, and Mormonism and to some extent Roman Catholicism are internal theologies of works, that is to say about perfecting one's self. Please note from a strictly utilitarian point of view none of those goals are even remotely possible. No one can perfect the world nor can one perfect one's self.

Reformed Chrisitianity is a theology of grace that is to say salvation is not earned it is a gift and from that gift springs works of righteousness pleasing to God.

 

Baptism and communion count, too.

 

I think you are pointing out that the three religions share a common foundation in the Bible - a shared understanding of a common god.

Since then there certainly have been divergences, but there is plenty of divergence even just in Christianity and I don't see any justification for suggesting that changes over time deny the shared foundational beliefs cemented during those ancient times. Thus none of these faiths is denying their Biblical roots.

Usually, the point is to work to improve oneself, not to BE perfect or to make the world perfect. Your comment that perfection isn't possible is not a reasonable condemnation of working toward that as a guiding light.

And, this is certainly not absent in Christianity, where we see a plethora of saints including those of recent times, reaching sainthood through earthly works.

 

IOW, you can't. Whoda seen that one coming?

When it comes to Christianity, my "ignorance" is worth a million times everything you ever knew.

John 13:1–17 recounts Jesus' performance of this act. In verses 13:14–17, He instructs His disciples:

If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. [...]​

As we can all see, nary a word about ritual cleansing. You're welcome.

 

Incredible. I guess you didn't bother reading the reference that outlines how it is ritualized. You are clearly in denial of fact.

Well I guess there ain't no arguing with the crazy, the stupid nor those of blind faith.

 

There is no shared understanding of God. A God that gifts salvation is a very different God from one that demands you earn it by self improvement who is in turn a very different God from one that demands that you conquer the world.

How do you work toward something that you can't even truly understand? Something for which you don't even have the basic prerequisites?

 

Yes the Roman Catholic Church ritualized a lot of stuff. 2 things you should understand the predominance of Rome in Christian affairs doesn't even get off the ground until the overweening Leo I Around 400AD. 2nd the Big problem with the Roman Church from the very beginning was three fold. 1st a very dangerous tendency toward syncretism,. 2nd a tendency to value the law more than the law giver, and third a preference for force over persuasion.

 

To those invested in lies, that's how the truth is perceived.

Of course I didn't, because its ritualization was never commanded by Christ.

Nevertheless, going through the motions can expose them for what they are.

 

It seems that you might benefit from sacrificing some goats this morning.

 

I don't believe mainstream Islam is any more dedicated to conquering the world than Christianity is - and has been. Remember that Christians are given the directive to go into every corner of the world and convert people who are there.

 

nice tangential thought. If you had read it, you would see that it states:

and of course I suppose this isn't ritual cleansing:

 

If god was all knowing.... why was there a failed old covenant?

 

well at least you admit it.

But his preachers sure as hell did.

Most evidently.

 

Because it outlawed masturbation?

 

Lol

 

Been to several Maundy Thursday services at my Lutheran Church, I haven't had my feet or anything else washed yet.....

 

But we are not told to do so by force we are instructed to teach and preach not threaten. Please note the first self identified Christian army doesn't show up until the Crusades and then in direct response to Islamic threats against the Holy land. On the other hand Islam had active armies attacking non Muslim people from day one even before Mohammed had written the Koran

 

Of course, why would your anecdotal religious experiences trump the facts. Silly me.

The point is that there are all kinds of cleansing rituals in the christian and most other religions. That demonstrable fact supports the premise that those religions all include dogmatic behaviors that are directly analogous to the four major symptomatic behavior indicators of OCD in individual humans. And, historians can confirm a number of religious figures displayed those symptoms as well. Isn't Martin Luther the founder of your church doctrine? Perhaps you should examine what historians say about the man.

 

not to put too fine a point to it, Islam wasn't around before he had his first vision. And he recited it because he was illiterate.

And he was deeply mired in the fight for control of the very lucrative businesses involved in servicing the Pagan Hajj to the Meccan Oasis to make offerings at the kaaba. Big time money back in the day. And sorting out property disputes in the Arabian Peninsula around then was routinely accomplished with the sword. He was a product of his time and only a prophet, not a god.

 

Again sir because people have a service called Maundy Thursday to commemorate the event does not mean every body is actually washing anyone else's feet outside of the RC church. A lot of mainstream Churches don't even have such a service.

 

The part abut his illiteracy is open for debate. There are sources indicating he studied with Christians in Antioch and Jews in Alexandria after daddy kicked his ass out of Mecca for being a trouble maker.. The first thing both Jews and Christian would have done is teach him to read.

 

I never claimed that everyone does it these days. My claim is that EVERY religion has ritual cleansing as part of its dogma. And that is borne out by the facts.

You keep trying to nit pick one example. What do you have to say about christening/baptism? How about holy water? Ritual cleansing as both practice and metaphor is integral to religious dogma of all stripes.