Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by WillReadmore, Feb 7, 2021.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/11/1076912

    It seems clear that Israel will not willingly cease its ethnic cleansing and property theft in Palestine.

    US, European, and/or UN action is going to be required, as under Israeli control it is just too inviting for them to simply steal the land they want and drive the occupants out.
     
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  2. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    We are fed up with the Palestinian Bedouin wall of lies.
    What about 35 murdered civilians yesterday in Syria ?
    What about last week's killings in Yemen ?
    What about the murdered Civil rights activist in Lebanon ?
    OOpppss... a Palestinian Bedouin was slightly injured while throwing a rock at Israeli cars ... stop everything ... It's Breaking News.
     
  3. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    The irony is... they are not Israelites, they are Edomites!
     
  4. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity
    ⁜→ WillReadmore, et al,

    BLUF: I understand that you are pro-Palestinian. But I don't understand the allegation of "Ethnic Cleansing."

    (COMMENT)

    Help me out here.
    ◈ What definition of Ethnic Cleansing are you using?
    ◈ What specific law are you applying and allege being broken?​

    I am reasonably sure you are not talking about "genocide." So that pretty much leaves (to the limit of my knowledge as a layman) the allegation that Israel is persecuting the Arab Palestinians as an identifiable group. But what identifiable group are YOU claiming are ding targeted on the basis of: or collectivity on:
    ◈ Political,
    ◈ Racial,
    ◈ National,
    ◈ Ethnic,
    ◈ Cultural,
    ◈ Religious, ​

    Or, what other grounds are you applying to the allegation?

    What specific impermissible under international law?

    (IMPLICATION)

    I gather you are addressing settlements. But I'm not sure.

    I gather (but again not sure) that you believe that Israel:

    ◈ Does not have full Israeli civil and security control within Area C; as agreed to by the Arab Palestinians.
    ◈ Did not sit down with the Arab Palestinians and negotiate under the Dispute Resolution Article to which the Arab Palestinians agreed.
    ◈ Did not recognize the Permanent Status of Negotiations coving remaining issues, including: Jerusalem,
    ✦ Refugees,
    ✦ Settlements,
    ✦ Security Arrangements,
    ✦ Borders,
    ✦ Relations and cooperation with other neighbors,
    ✦ Other issues of common interest. ​

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that Israel is NOT permitted to prosecute the Arab Palestinians who commit crimes which are solely intended to harm the Israels as the Occupying Power.

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that YOU believe the Arab Palestinians are allowed to kidnap and kill civilians and security forces. YOU believe the Arab Palestinians are allowed to seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by Israelis. ,

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that YOU believe the Arab Palestinians are not liable to internment or simple imprisonment,

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that YOU believe the Arab Palestinians permitted to use of explosives, incendiaries, and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that YOU believe the Arab Palestinians permitted to:
    ◈ Engage in Indiscriminate attacks.
    ◈ Locate military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
    ◈ Locate civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.
    ◈ Take of hostages.
    ◈ Use of human shields​

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that YOU believe the Arab Palestinians are allowed to receive donor contribution, aid, and assistance to subsidize terrorists and their families.

    I get the impression (I hope you can dispel these awful thoughts) that YOU believe Dalal al-Maghribi, who killed men, women, and children (to include the niece of a US Senator) are worthy role models for the young Arab Palestinian generations to come (Honored Martyrs).

    I suppose the fact that the Arab Palestinians belonging to the many terrorist organizations should be forgiven, a free ride, without consequence or penalty.

    I suppose the fact that it makes no difference to YOU that 1967 the Arab Palestinians did not even have a functioning government of infrastructure. Or that between 1967 and 1988 the West Bank was sovereign Jordanian territory. That in 1988, the Jordanians "formally" abandon the West Bank into the hands of the Occupation Power.

    I have more questions on YOUR support to the Arab Palestinian Government that supports several designated terrorist groups, but my fingers are tired.

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
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  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, I did NOT say genocide.

    For you to make that huge a mistake about what I said means that I don't think there is ANY value in reading the rest of what you said.

    If you want to go back and address the "ethnic cleansing" issue, GOOD!!

    But, the bottom line is that Israel ABSOLUTELY is committing ethnic cleansing in West Bank and has been for a VERY long time. During the Bush administration even Netanyahu aggreed that Israeli settlements in West Bank were illegal. He AGREED with the Bush requirements for entering negotiations with Palestine, which icluded Netanyahu REMOVING those illegal settlements.

    There is NO nation on Earth that doesn't agree that Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing operations. That just isn't the issue.
     
  6. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity
    ⁜→ WillReadmore, et al,

    BLUF: You did not answer a single question.

    (COMMENT)

    Well, You won't mind if I clarify what I said: I am reasonably sure you are not talking about "genocide."



    (COMMENT)

    I think you'll notice that I used the Definition for Ethnic Cleansing from the Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law (Page 190).

    I only mentioned it because the reference made a point of it: "While there are similarities between ethnic cleansing and genocide, absent the intention to destroy an ethnic group and not merely members of that group or to dissolve it, ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide: Genocide Convention Cases 2007 I.C.J. Rep. 1 at 70 and 71."

    The non-binding Resolutions like A/RES/46/242 (1992) and A/RES/47/80 were really talking about situations on a scale similar to Bosnia/Herzegovina.

    Article 7(1)(h) of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court {"Crime Against Humanity") mention Ethnic Persecution. And You will notice that I copied the elements of the consideration (almost verbatim) from the code. And it has six Elements of the Offense:

    1. The perpetrator severely deprived, contrary to international law, one or more persons of fundamental rights.
    2. The perpetrator targeted such person or persons by reason of the identity of a group or collectivity or targeted the group or collectivity as such.
    3. Such targeting was based on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in article 7, paragraph 3, of the Statute, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law.
    4. The conduct was committed in connection with any act referred to in article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
    5. The conduct was committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.
    6. The perpetrator knew that the conduct was part of or intended the conduct to be part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.​

    (COMMENT)

    I think you are correct, in that the legality in the establishment of the Settlements is in question. But the original intent (I believe) was to force the Arab Palestinians to the Negotiation Table. But in the quarter-century since the Oslo Accords, not once was the issue brought forward as a matter under the Article V Permanent Status of Negotiation.

    (COMMENT)

    I believe that the honesty of the issue of "Ethnic Cleansing" out in left field.

    We are not talking about the Muammar Gaddafi or the Bangladesh War of Independence of 1971 involving 10s of Millions. We are not talking about anything on the level of the Khmer Rouge. The issue simply doesn't rise to the level of "Ethnic Cleansing."

    This is a case of selective enforcement upon a Regional Minority, and a gross exaggeration of the magnitude of the claim.

    Yeah, if you bring a Resolution before the General Assembly on the matter of toilet paper used in the UN Headquarters, you could probably get 100 of the 139 member nations to pass the resolution. Aperiodically throughout history, nations have banded together to persecute the Jewish People. What we are looking at today, is just another example of a segment of the community to validate, yet again, the subjugation of the Jewish State as envisioned more than a half-century ago.

    I am not falling for the sympathy card the Arab Palestinians are playing. They have squandered so much that could have been applied to the domestic growth of the nation.

    IF you want to be counted among the advocates and those supporting the goals and objectives of the

    ◈ ‘Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade’.
    ◈ ‘Al-Aqsa e.V.’
    ◈ ‘Hamas’, including ‘Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem’
    ◈ ‘Palestinian Islamic Jihad’
    ◈ ‘Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’
    → well, so be it...

    Remember, the Arab Palestinians gave a majority of seats in the last election to HAMAS. By definition, that is providing support for terrorism. If the Arab Palestinians get displaced, well - that just breaks my heart. I have no sympathy for those who directly oppose any one of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts; or are sympathetic to their criminal activities.

    The Arab Palestinians must be imprinted with the notion that they face consequences for their history of criminal behaviors.

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely DID answer you.

    You claimed I was talking about genocide.

    I made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that I was not and am not.

    Then, you spam me with THIS diatribe again?

    If you want to ASK a question, I'll answer it.

    You can ask me a question in one or two sentences. I'm pretty sure of that. You have been able to do that in the past.

    You can ask me about the Hamas election in West Bank, for example.

    You can ask me about the bulldozing of Palestinian homes if you want.

    You can ask me how it is that Israel settled the west bank of the Jordan river if you want.

    Whatever ...
     
  8. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The land east of the Jordan belonged to the Hebrew tribe of Gad and a couple of other tribal families. I guess one could claim that those tribes no longer exist, but that still wouldn't validate the fictitious claims of an imaginary Arab tribe calling themselves 'palestinians'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
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  9. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Jordan is Palestine.
     
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  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    As far as I'm concerned the land is Israels. They paid for it in the only currency that really matters.

    Their lives.
     
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  11. dharbert

    dharbert Well-Known Member

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    I'll tell Palestinians the same thing I tell Native Americans when they whine about their land being "stolen". Should have fought harder...
     
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    NO country borders are determined in that manner.

    But, the issue with Israel's ethnic cleansing goes WAY beyond that.

    Israel is continuing to bulldoze the homes of the people who have lived for generations in West Bank and taking that land for their own use.

    Israelis have stolen water rights, blocked access to farms (and then claimed the farmland on the basis that the owners couldn't get there to farm it), etc.

    Plus, Israel rules much of West Bank under foreign military law often enforced by mercenaries - government in which the population being ruled has NO representation.

    Israel IS ethnicly cleansing Palestine.

    What you call the land or the people whose property is being stolen is absolutely irrelevant.

    A country can call itself anything it wants to call itself. YOU have NO basis for objection. We even now have two countries with the name "Congo" in Africa!

    Besides, Palestine is recognized by the UN. And, the UNSC has validated Palestine as being fully capable of being a country - which is a duty of the UNSC to perform.


    There is NO justification for the heinous humanitarian atrocity being carried out by Israel.

    It is a crime that will NEVER be forgotten in human history.
     
  13. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol total rubbish. Define 'ethnic cleansing' when both tribes are semitic peoples, and one even plagiarizes its fake religion from the same book; not that that is what is really going on, since removing terrorist supporters is a good thing, not a bad one.
     
  14. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    I was referring to Edomites.

    Edomites are not Israelites. Edomites descend from Jacob/Israel's fraternal twin brother, Esau/Edom. Even though Esau was the first born of the twins, Esau despised his divine inheritance, sold it to Jacob for lunch, then married forbidden women forever separating his descendants from God. Malachi 1:1-4 says God hates Esau/Edom and Paul repeats it in Romans 9:13.

    Throughout Old Testament history, Edomites and Israelites were enemies. Edom allied with Babylon when Babylon took Israelites captive. Edom joined in Babylon's destruction of Jerusalem/temple and Edomites moved in to occupy the Holy Land during Babylon's rule.

    Edomite occupation of the Holy Land was repeated again in New Testament times. According to Josephus, in the 2nd century BC, Edomites lost a war against the last Kingdom of Israel. Then the Israelite prince/high priest [he was both] John Hyrcanus did something very stupid. He allowed the defeated Edomites to live in the Kingdom if Israel if they "converted" which they all did en masse.

    After Edomites "converted" en masse to being "Jews", they became a usurping and destroying fifth column. In 37BC Edomite Herod allied with Rome to conquer Jerusalem and Rome proclaimed Herod "King of the Judeans." Edomite Herod proceeded to murder all the remaining Israelite royal heirs, totally tore down the second temple [the temple Cyrus had decreed built after Israelites returned from Babylon] to rebuild his own third temple and slaughtered the babes of Bethlehem to try to murder Israel's Messiah, God's Temple made without hands, Jesus Christ!

    Now for the third time Edomites have usurped and maliciously occupy God's ancient Holy Land. The modern so-called state of "Israel" was founded by revolutionaries from the area of Imperial Russia's old "Pale of Settlement" which is why Stalin was the first to legally recognize it, Communist nations were the first to arm it and Russian has been one of its primary languages since its inception.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  15. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol
     
  16. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    If you laugh loud enough, maybe you can drown out the truth that you are defending impostors!
     
  17. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    lol sure thing!
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Israel is stealing property, destroying farms, stealing water rights, and ruling the remaining population with foreign military government based on ethnicity.

    There is absolutely no way of refuting that.

    Beyond that, spewing your hate is an indictment of YOU and your thought process.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Everything I've said is universally recognized - including by Netanyahu.

    And, the only thing you have in defense is ad hom.

    Pathetic!
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you say the same thing to holocaust survivors who incessantly "whine" about their fate?

    There's no debating the fact that today's Palestinians are the victims of oldest and most brutal, foreign funded Occupation in modern history.
     
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  21. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    This thread is another view presented by the Palestinian wall of lies propaganda.
    Jordan is Palestine.
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I hear some group complain about their "land being stolen" I think of one of the last episodes of the western "High Chaparral".

    The High Chaparral was a western about a ranch bought and worked by Big John Cannon along the U.S. Mexican border.

    In this particular episode, a group of U.S. Army troops stop at the ranch while being commanded by a very unpopular officer.

    Buck Cannon (John's brother) asks one of the officers how he feels about serving under a man like that.

    The officer says he doesn't mind any more than he minds being at the High Chaparral with a "group of thieves" (the Cannon family).

    Buck Cannon angrily replies "My brother bought this ranch!".

    The officer asks "Who did he buy it from?".

    Buck Cannon "The Spanish".

    Officer. "Did the Spanish buy it from the Apaches".

    When Buck Cannon doesn't reply the officer redirects the question to Wind, the Indian ranch hand.

    Wind replies, "I never saw a bill of sale, but then again the Apache didn't buy it from the Navajo either"
     
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  23. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    .

    The difference is, this is not just any land that has been fought over again and again.

    This is God's ancient Biblical Holy Land.

    So it is no coincidence it is now the center of global contention and unrest
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  24. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    RE: Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank
    ⁜→ Grau, et al,

    BLUF: I'm not sure that either of these three statements is true. Modern history is a subjective timeline. The yard-stick varies depending on who's criteria you might use.

    The Medieval History timeline begins at 400 AD and ends at 1600 AD. The New World History timeline starts at 1600 and increases at intervals of 25 years, while the Modern History timeline begins at 1850 and increases 10 years per interval. Each timeline comes with a symbol package containing 120 colored stickers.
    Brand: Knowledge Quest
    Timeline of Modern History | Knowledge Quest | 9781932786149
    upload_2021-2-19_13-45-57.png
    www.rainbowresource.com/product/025129/Timeline-of-Modern-History.html
    The easiest of the timelines to use is:

    INTRO TO PHILOSOPHY NOTES INDEX.jpg
    Let us assume (for the moment) that you are speaking of the post-Modern Period (1900 and forward to the present day), and for the sake of the discussion, we cut that period in half and consider that as your "Modern Period." That would be ≈ 1960 to the present day.
    (COMMENT)

    OK, actually there is a debate that originates with the Arab Palestinian Claim. The Arab Palestinians do not speak with a single voice, so the claim, not having been placed in the agreed-upon dispute resolution process, varies among the factions. One such claim is that (common to both HAMAS and Fatah) is that Palestine has the boundaries of the territory formerly under the British Mandate (west of the Jordan River). And that this territory is an indivisible territorial unit. You can find this with the current PLO Chater (the PLO being the sole representative of the Palestinians) and the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).

    IF this is the case THEN the Israel Forces actually represent a party to a Civil War (Jews 'vs' Arab Palestinians). And that would mean that the Occupation is not "foreign" in the sense that the forces come from beyond the territory claimed by the Arab Palestinians.

    There are other complications on this issue, but I do not want to expand the discussion beyond your commentary.
    (COMMENT)

    The Total casualties for this period (1949 - 2014) was 63,543, including 31,227 fatalities.

    The Total:
    Civilian casualties:
    • 16,724 killed
    • 1.9 million displaced
    2008 civilian casualties:
    • 7,674 killed
    A 2010 Report published in Accord Issue 21 entitled Endless War states that:

    "The three years from 2006-08 were catastrophic for Somalis. Military occupation, a violent insurgency, rising jihadism, and massive population displacement has reversed the incremental political and economic progress achieved by the late 1990s in south-central Somalia. With 1.3 million people displaced by fighting since 2006, 3.6 million people in need of emergency food aid, and 60,000 Somalis a year fleeing the country, the people of south-central Somalia face the worst humanitarian crisis since the early 1990s."​

    As you can see, the Jihadist uprising in Somalia was much more devastating in two-years than the Arab-Israeli Conflict was in 65 years. Similarly, the Iraq Conflict:

    Iraq war casualties
    Casualties of the Iraq War. Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 ( Associated Press ).
    The Iraq Body Count project documents 183,348 - 205,908 violent civilian deaths through April 2019.
    All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed. Jan 1 2020
    Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia
    upload_2021-2-19_15-19-45.png
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War​

    There is no question that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) like to play-up the "We are the Victims" role in the conflict. But when one looks at the facts, one can clearly see that the HoAP are in violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR); falling under Human Rights Law.

    Article 20

    1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

    2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
    Further, any HoAP who commit an offense that is solely intended to harm the Israelis as an Occupying Power (if indeed they are an Occupation Power), is subject to prosecution under the Customary and International Humanitarian Law outlined in Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention.

    (COMMENT)

    By definition (Article 42 Hague Convention of 1907): "Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
    The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."

    All the Occupations since 1960 have been established by a "foreign" authority. Very few occupations in history are self-sustaining. An example of a self-sustaining occupation were those established under the major Empires. There are no major Empires remaining. The last of the Empires was that of Ethiopia. So, in contemporary times (since 1960), all Occupations have been foreign-funded; with the possible exception of the independent province (quasi-autonomous) Tibet [People's Republic of China (PRC)].

    (I'll Stop Here!)

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     

    Attached Files:

  25. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's funny that you should complain about about "the Palestinian wall of lies propaganda" when Israel is the only country that trains and pays Zionist individuals $2,000- for 5 hours of "work" (1) to post scripted Hasbara "talking points" on Social Media and forums like this one.

    Out of the 25 threads currently listed in the Mid East section of this forum, you've started 16 threads of the same, tiresome, old Hasbara talking points we've all read over and over before.

    Surely, you're in no position to complain about this one thread that points out that Israel's Right Wing Zionists continue with the oldest and most brutal, foreign funded ethnic cleansing in modern history.



    (1) "How Israel and its partisans work to censor the Internet"
    https://israelpalestinenews.org/israel-partisans-work-censor-internet/

    EXCERPT "As it turns out, Israel and Israeli institutions employ armies of Internet warriors—from Israeli soldiers to students—to spread propaganda online and try to get content banned that Israel doesn’t want seen.

    Israel and partisans of Israel have long had a significant presence on the Internet, working to promote the Israel narrative and block facts about Palestine, the Israel lobby, and other subject matter they wish covered up.

    In addition to these, however, a number of orchestrated, often well-funded projects sponsored by the Israeli government and others have come to light. These projects work to place pro-Israel content throughout the Internet, and to remove information Israel doesn’t wish people to know.

    Under this program, Israeli students are paid $2,000 to work five hours per week to “lead the battle against hostile websites.”

    Campaign to infiltrate Wikipedia

    CAMERA called for volunteers to secretly work on editing Wikipedia entries. It emphasized the importance of keeping the project secret. Volunteers were schooled in ways to elude detection. After they signed up as editors, they were to “avoid editing Israel-related articles for a short period of time.”CONTINUED
     
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