Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by WillReadmore, Feb 7, 2021.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    We have a very good definition of what is meant by being a person.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Our founding documents clearly identify all people.

    When our founding documents want to limit to the USA, it uses the term "citizen".
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  3. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know, it is utterly ridiculous, but facts are facts, especially when they are so obviously visible. History shows you how the Bolsheviks (Jews) treated the Russians.
    Israel shows you how the Israelis treat the Palestinians, the Syrians, etc.

    https://nationalvanguard.org/2015/11/liberating-america-from-israel/

    Why would you believe you will be treated more benevolently?
     
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  4. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    78 Replies !!! You sure have a great Palestinian propganda !! :applause::applause:
    The killings in Syria's post have Zero comments...
     
  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps that's because this thread is not about the killings in Syria.

    You keep howling about "Palestinian propaganda" but cannot refute the fact that Israel has an army of trained, paid and scripted Hasbara trolls who make about $2,000- for 5 hours of "work"(*) to infect social media and dominate Wikipedia(1) with their scripted lies.

    Unfortunately for Israel's Right Wing ethnic cleansing land thieves, most of Israel's atrocities are not "hasbarable" according to the late ambassador Yohanan Meroz:

    "It’s self-deception, of course, and it’s also part of the campaign of propaganda and lies. There are some things, said the late ambassador Yohanan Meroz, that are not “hasbarable.” One of them is Israel’s actions. No explainer or propagandist can explain the perpetuation of the occupation. It just won’t work." (2)



    (*) “Israeli students to get $2,000 to spread state propaganda on Facebook”
    https://electronicintifada.net/blog...ts-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook”

    (1) "Zionist Control of WikiPedia"

    http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/at...ls-the-media/429-zionist-control-of-wikipedia

    EXCERPT “And as shown in our section on Google, this Internet search-engine is well in the hands of Zionist Jews and also cooperates openly with Zionist organizations such as ADL and the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) to control the searches and censoring information and certain sites.

    This means that apart from Wikipedia other sites may be censored when Googling any given subject.” CONTINUED


    (2) "Israeli Propaganda Isn't Fooling Anyone – Except Israelis"
    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-propaganda-without-end-amen-1.5369189
     
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  6. RoccoR

    RoccoR Active Member Past Donor

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    RE: Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank
    SUBTOPIC: Propaganda
    ⁜→ Grau, et al,

    BLUF: I've seen the banter over the difference between "Propaganda" and "Public Affairs" many times before. It is an argument of "labels" that is often raised by the pro-Palestinian contingent. It is often sparked by a lack of understanding of the definition assigned label.

    (COMMENT)

    First, let's get the propaganda ferreted-out. Not all propaganda is illegal.

    Article 20 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) (1966)

    1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

    2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​

    Article 20 is the Binding Covenant that came about from the non-Binding grandparent of A/RES/2/110 (1947) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war. So if the speech, public or private, is in question, you have to ask: Does it advocate or otherwise constitutes "incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law?"

    My understanding is that the (infamous) Hasbara (if they really exist or if they are an advertising entity) advocates the Right of the Jewish people to Self-Determination [UN Charter Article I(2)] and to exercise their Right to Self-Defense [UN Charter (Article 51)], to be a "free people in our own land."

    Whereas, the Arab Palestinian "content" is what it is." (Pictures are worth a thousand words.)

    There is no question as to the Arab Palestinian history of criminal actions amounting to behaviors of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
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  7. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just a question, Rocco, with regards to your quote above :

    Why is it legal for the Jews to protect and defend themselves but not the Pals?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  8. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Again: I'd like to see proof for land theft. I know there are a few outposts illegal under Israeli law, some have already been dismantled, but this is not the land theft at state level you're talking about. Proof, or at least sources.

    May I gently remind you that those negotiations took place after the Oslo accords had been signed, meaning that the international laws governing the relations between Israel and the PA were (still are) generated by the Oslo accords. There's nothing in the accords about not building in existing settlements, or new settlements.

    I'd appreciate a reliable source for the "has stated...that he WILL continue striving to ethnically cleanse all of Palestine" part. I know Bibi said at first he will not negotiate, but then he delivered the famous Bar Ilan speech: "I appeal to you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority. Let us begin peace negotiations immediately without prior conditions. Israel is committed to international agreements, and expects all sides to fulfill their obligations. I say to the Palestinians: We want to live with you in peace, quiet, and good neighborly relations. We want our children and your children to 'know war no more.'".

    Your source?

    What's ADF? Did you mean IDF?

    There's much you don't know about the PA. For instance, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other terrorist organizations, are far more dangerous for Abbas and his Fatah than Israel will ever be. Yes, he cooperates with Israel to keep these organizations in check because they threaten the intimate relationship between his behind and the presidential chair.

    The American pressure caused Israel to accept American weapons and training for the Palestinian police, not the non-existent Abbas' actions against terrorism. How's the pay-for-slay policy against terrorism?

    Yeah, and some of US' actions are a serious problem for Israel*. So what? Each country is pursuing its own interests. Or do you expect countries to act in the best interest of other countries to their own detriment?

    * like when the CIA took a terrorist to Disneyland
    https://www.jpost.com/opinion/the-time-the-cia-took-a-terrorist-to-disneyland-615012

    There are a number of problems with the above quote. The most obvious is related to the definition of "Palestine".

    Please detail how has Israel been waging war on Palestine for decades (after you define "Palestine"). Keep in mind that you're talking to an Israeli, not a gullible armchair warrior in a basement in US. This should be interesting.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, that last seems like the only possible starting point.

    Palestine is the country recognized by the UN as an observer state.

    Gaza and West Bank are parts of Palestine.

    Israel has been waging war against Palestine continuously for well over 20 years.
     
  10. RoccoR

    RoccoR Active Member Past Donor

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    RE: Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank
    SUBTOPIC: Propaganda
    ⁜→ Jazz, et al,

    BLUF: There are two levels to this question:

    ◈ Individual Level:
    Each individual Israelis and each individual Arab Palestinian have exactly the same right of self-defense. Under International Law, every person has equality before the law and is treated equally under the law.​
    ◈ State with the International Community Level:
    ✦ The State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority (Ramallah) Government (as a legal entity) are treaty equally in terms of self-defense.
    ✦ self-defence Under customary law, it is generally understood to be competent only where the ‘necessity of that self-defense is instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation.​

    (COMMENT)

    But in today's Arab Palestinian-Israeli Conflict most of the cases within the West Bank are guided by the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV). In that:

    ◈ Protected Persons (meaning the Arab Palestinian) that commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israel), shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment.

    ◈ Protected Persons (meaning the Arab Palestinian) that commit an offense of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power (Israel) or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.

    ◈ Criminal Acts by Protected Persons (meaning the Arab Palestinian) directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective are subject to judicial prosecution are possibly held accountable as elaborated under the19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
    To effect change, you have to work within the law. The policy held by the Arab Palestinians is that "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" is fundamentally wrong. While the International Community overlooks such incitement to arms, the Covnant on the books reads:

    Article 20 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

    1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

    2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

    (IMPORTANT)

    Oddly enough, the Israelis (themselves) are also held to the same standards and subject to very similar prosecutorial actions (under domestic law) for committing similar kinds of criminal behaviors and offenses.

    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  11. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THAT is coming to an end now under Biden:

    The State Department said Tuesday that a U.S. delegation attended a meeting of a Norwegian-run committee that serves as a clearinghouse for assistance to the Palestinians.
    ....
    “During the discussion, the United States reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to advancing prosperity, security, and freedom for both Israelis and Palestinians and to preserve the prospects of a negotiated two-state solution in which Israel lives in peace and security alongside a viable Palestinian state,” the State Department said in a statement.

    “The United States underscored the commitment to supporting economic and humanitarian assistance and the need to see progress on outstanding projects that will improve the lives of the Palestinian people, while urging all parties to avoid unilateral steps that make a two-state solution more difficult to achieve,” it said.

    Read all here:
    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/biden-moves-reengage-palestinians-israel-021155929.html
    -----
    Good old Biden still has some guts in him! I hope he will be able to see it through. This will be his maiden voyage into troubled waters...
    ‘First I knocked off Trump. Now I knock off Netanyahu’ — Inside Biden’s brain!!!
    Go for it, Joe!:chainsaw: :clapping:

    https://mondoweiss.net/2020/12/firs...ow-i-knock-off-netanyahu-inside-bidens-brain/
     
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  12. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would be nice, IF you could provide some real-life examples of Israelis actually getting punished by their own law enforcement for crimes committed against Pals. In my readings over the years I have never come across such a case. To mind comes the murder of the American peace activist Rachel Corrie. Nobody was ever charged for that horrendous murder.

    Here I have a recent article about many atrocities committed by settlers against Palestinians... practically on a daily basis...

    Israeli Settlers Escalate their Crimes Against Palestinians
    A large crowd of illegal Israeli settlers, on Saturday, under the protection of occupation soldiers, led an assault on Palestinian civilians in the southern West Bank city of Hebron.

    more here:
    https://imemc.org/article/israeli-settlers-escalate-their-crimes-against-palestinians/
    https://imemc.org/article/pchr-week...ons-in-the-occupied-palestinian-territory-14/
    -------------
    I remember how the Israelis dumped their sewage into Palestinians' vineyards...
    or bulldozed their olive trees.
    If
    they actually got sued and fined/punished by their authorities, they wouldn't be so brutal, but Israel is allowed to do anything it wants...
    [​IMG]


     
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  13. RoccoR

    RoccoR Active Member Past Donor

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    RE: Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank
    SUBTOPIC: Propaganda
    ⁜→ Jazz, et al,

    BLUF: As I said, they are held to the same standard.

    (ANSWER)

    (ANSWER)


    (ANSWER)

    First, the term "atrocities" is NOT an objective legal term. It is an adjective designed to incite emotion. It performs functions for news reporters and authors to sell their products.

    In terms of the media, Bloodthirsty news articles sell.

    If It Bleeds, It Leads: Understanding Fear-Based Media ...
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/.../if-it-bleeds-it-leads-understanding-fear-based-media
    Jun 07, 2011 · News programming uses a hierarchy of if it bleeds, it leads. Fear-based news programming has two aims. The first is to grab the viewer's attention. In the news media, this is called the teaser.
    Don't expect very much objectivity from the media. It is a highly competitive occupation and business. And sensationalization is not something that has gone unnoticed by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). They routinely parade the body of loved-ones around for media exposure and manipulation. The HoAP has been known to stage events and scenes for media consumption. The HoAP have even instigated confrontations with law enforcement, military, and security services to make a splash in the media.

    (COMMENT)

    While I think that the Israelis have been a bit remiss and even absent due diligence in the patrol, surveillance, and civil affairs matters in the vicinity of Area "C" Settlements, I don't see the HoAP with any attempt to improve relations.

    In any conflict that rolls into decades of hostile contact, the humanity that would have a chance of flourishing between the parties to the conflict diminishes. And while the Israelis are not absolved from aggravating the situation, it has been a 70-year policy of the HoAP that has been the prime mover in the violence.

    ◈ 13(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child. (UNPC Monthly Report A/AC.21/10 of 16 February 1948)

    ◈ Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. (PLO Charter 1968)

    ◈ Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people. (The Islamic Resistance Movement “Hamas” 2017)​

    Whether we look at the very beginning of Israel, or right up to today, the policy of violence existed before Israel moved into the Sovereign Jordanian Territory of the West Bank or the Military Governorship the Gaza Strip, violence has been the bread and butter of the HoAP.


    Without regard to what you read, or what the pro-Palestinians told you → IF the Palestinian intentionally harm the Israeli Law Enforcement, Security, Military or Civil Administration in the West Bank, THEN they are subject to prosecution under the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (Article 68 GCIV). IF the HoAP engages in quasi-Military Operations, activities which fall under the UN Counter-Terrorism Strategy (Annex to A/RES/60/288), or engages in (or makes a credible threat to engage) a direct military-type action against Israel (a Member of the United Nations), THEN they are subject to an armed response necessary to eliminate the threat. (Article 51 UN Charter).

    I think I've addressed all your questions in this exchange. But am ready to study any further questions you might have. The Israeli-HoAP Conflict is a huge topic.
    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I understand your detailed comment correctly, you seem to be addressing 2 issues:
    - the use of propaganda
    - the resistance of Palestine's native residents to Zionist invasion and occupation

    Whether propaganda is legal or not is not the issue since all sides in this and other conflicts use it. @MGB ROADSTER repeatedly complains about Palestinian propaganda with the regularity one would would expect from a paid, trained, and scripted full-time Hasbara agent. Of the 25 threads started in the Mid East section of this forum, he has started about 16 anti Palestinian / anti Muslim / pro Israel threads.

    To understand propaganda as it relates to the Israel - Palestine conflict, one must recognize the difference between the disorganized, crude and unfunded pro Palestinian advocacy by everyday individuals and Israel's sophisticated, international, multi $ Billion dollar Hasbara industry that offers extensive training programs around the world for its scripted army of well paid Israel advocates (aka Hasbara trolls).
    The Israeli government hires international P.R. experts like Frank Luntz to train its army of paid advocates via Hasbara scholarships and Hasbara fellowships(1).

    While it is impossible to accurately estimate the number of paid Israel advocates around the world, there are about 15,000 users of the Israeli government supported app. called "ACT IL" (2).

    I hope that after a cursory study of Israel's government sponsored Hasbara industry you will see the disparity between a sophisticated, international, government funded Propaganda Industry and the numerous individuals around the world who are sympathetic to the misery that has been inflicted on Palestine's native population by foreign Zionists for nearly 100 years.

    Your second issue, if I am correct, has to do with the resistance of Palestine's native residents to the conquest and theft of land that has been in their possession for generations.

    I am fascinated by history and have both been to the Mid East and studied its history for over 50 years. Over that period of time I cannot think of any people either in the Mid East or elsewhere that has meekly submitted to such a cruel and humiliating ethnic cleansing and occupation without resisting it however they can. Can you?

    Thanks,



    (1) "Israel: The state of hasbara"
    https://www.dailysabah.com/op-ed/2018/05/09/israel-the-state-of-hasbara

    EXCERPT "To accomplish this double mission, hasbara targets diplomats, politicians and the political and economic elite as well as the public through mass media. This is also accomplished through institutes and government agencies as well as in universities, nongovernmental organizations (NGO), research centers and lobbies. Individuals such as bloggers and journalists, who sell a beautiful image of Israel, also contribute to hasbara. Notably, Israel offers hasbara fellowships, grants, scholarships, social media internships and even salaries for students to enable them to become advocates of Israel.

    Hasbara also seeks to have an impact through different digital and mobile applications, which offer supporters of Israel the tools and information needed to spread pro-Israel propaganda through their online platforms. "CONTINUED



    (2) "The War on Truth: How Israel's social media trolls conquered Facebook"
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...raels-social-media-trolls-conquered-facebook/

    EXCERPT "Writing in EI, Asa Winstanley, reported on a "troll army of thousands" that is "partly funded by the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs".

    "To conceal its involvement, the ministry has admitted to working through front groups that 'do not want to expose their connection with the state,'" Winstanley wrote.

    One such troll group estimated to include 15,000 active members, is Act.IL.

    Writing in Jacobin Magazine website, Michael Bueckert describes the main function of Act.IL app users:

    "With the mobile application and online platform Act.IL, Israel aims to recruit a mob of slacktivists and trolls to join their war against the most insidious forms of violence: pro-Palestinian tweets and Facebook posts."

    Act.IL is only the tip of the iceberg of a massive, centralized effort led by the Israeli government and involving legions of supporters around the world. However, Israel would never have achieved its objectives were it not for the fact that Facebook has officially joined the Israeli government in its social media "war" on Palestinians." CONTINUED
     
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  15. RoccoR

    RoccoR Active Member Past Donor

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    RE: Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank
    SUBTOPIC: Propaganda
    ⁜→ Grau, MGB ROADSTER, et al,

    BLUF: I think you missed the context of my responses. They specifically started-out to challenge your assumptions. From there was the progression. While I have been lurking somewhat in the background, I most often remain silent. In the last 10 years, I've posted less than 1000 responses (Postings < 10/mo and never opened a discussion thread). I have found a number of your posts → quite interesting, but this latest line of thought resonated with me.


    (COMMENT)

    Well, what sparked my attention was your use of the terms/phrases:

    ◈ propaganda
    ◈ resistance of Palestine's native residents
    ◈ invasion​

    (COMMENT)

    This is what we use to call, in my old trade, is an unsubstantiated allegation (made without evidence) - or - in philosophical terms, an ad Hominem attack. While you mention complaints of Palestinian Propaganda, you do not challenge that the content or context in which @MGB ROADSTER presented his commentary. What you do - is challenge the integrity of @MGB ROADSTER and make a backhanded compliment about resembling a Hasbara agent. The implication being that @MGB ROADSTER was somehow a vile and destructive impact on this social network.

    (COMMENT)

    All this demonstrates is that @MGB ROADSTER is vocal, vigorous, energetic, and untiring in the pursuit of the pro-Israeli position and agenda. I would expect that you would be no less demonstrative.

    (COMMENT)

    Again, once more with the ad Hominem attacks. However, I see the comparative analysis between the funded program (Pro-Israeli) and the unfunded program (anti-Israeli).

    (COMMENT)

    So the complaint here is what? That the Public Diplomacy programs for the pro-Israel Concerns are better supported than the "counter" program by the Arab Palestinians in support of the advocates opposed to Israel and for what it stands.


    (COMMENT)

    Like I said at the start of this particular response, I don't like the term "propaganda." It is all too often misused. Both pro-Israel and anti-Israel advocates are a form of Promotional Programs used by every major industry - worldwide. Whether they operated in free-space, the satellite broadcast arena, cyberspace, or the print media, success is based on the amount of effort applied to those endeavors.

    There will always be a disparity between the two programs. Israel ranks 19th among the nations of the world on the 2020 Human Development Index (HDI) and its components. Israel ranks higher than any of the countries in the Middle East North African (MENA) Region, any Arab League, OPEC Country, and Gulf State Nations. It is comparable to the HDI of Japan. (Just for Comparison the United States only ranked 17th on the HDI.) The (so-called) State of Palestine ranks 115th, which is on par with South Africa (slightly higher) and Egypt (slightly lower). So, of course, the most significantly developed nation in the Region is going to have a better capability to organize a Public Diplomacy to counter anti-Israeli propaganda from the Arab Palestinians.

    (COMMENT)

    Non-Violent Resistance is not an issue. But the use of stabbings, bombing, sniper attacks, street disorder, and what-not is improper behavior.

    And certainly, the launching of lighter than air incendiary devices, rockets and mortars, kidnappings and murder, breaching antics along the border, and infiltration attempts are just entirely out of line. What country would put-up with these kinds of attacks? What would Saudi Arabia do in the face of PLO Antics? (Wait, didn't they ready arrest a bunch of Palestinian ex-pats?)

    (COMMENT)

    That is because "ethnic cleansing" is not a true crime. What Article 7(1h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, actually says is something different. And it did not come into effect until 2002.

    Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious,
    gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under
    international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
    [/indent]

    ◈ My understanding is that Israel has never forced any Arab Palestinian to leave the partitioned portion of the former territory under the Mandate. Can you tell me when that happened?

    ◈ My understanding is that the Israelis did not displace any Arab Palestinians beyond the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied.

    ◈ My understanding is that the A/RES/194 (III) (NONBINDING) stipulated it applied to those wishing to return to their homes and live at peace

    ◈ My understanding is that the Israelis did not engage the Arab Palestinians, by was entangled with the Arab Legion (Jordanian Army) on Jordanian Sovereign Territory.

    ◈ My understanding is that the Israelis set up effective control because the Arab Palestinians represented a real threat to Israeli Sovereignty.

    ◈ My understanding is that the Arab Palestinians had no established government formed (June 1967).

    ◈ My understanding is that the Arab Palestinians had no established government formed 20 years later when Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank (July 1988).

    ◈ My understanding is that the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) (BINDING) established an exemption to the RoR by excluding those that present a threat to national security or of public order, or of public health or morals. (Published 1966 and put into force in 1976)

    ◈ In 1995, the Jordanian Government established a Peace Treaty with Israel. My understanding is that the treaty set a new boundary that extended from the Jordan River to the sea.​

    My understanding is that the Arab Palestinians published the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) Charter in 1968, already knowing the exemption for the threat to national security or of public order, or of public health or morals.

    My understanding is that the PLO declared independence in November 1988, 3 and a half months after the Israelis assumed control when the Arab Palestinians withdrew.





    [​IMG]
    Most Respectfully,
    R​
     
  16. Tejas

    Tejas Active Member

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    The irony is... they are NOT Israelites... they are evil Edomite impostors who malicously occupy and pervert God's ancient Holy Land... as they did in OT and NT times.
     
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  17. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Palestine is not a country, at least not yet.

    You know what's interesting? Israel is always accused of breaking some mythological international law - of course nobody knows exactly what that law is, but it's Israel, so it must be guilty, right? - but when the Palestinians violate international law, the world not only stays silent, but actively helps them.

    Yeah, I know you have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Under the Oslo accords, the PA is prohibited from joining international organizations and establishing diplomatic relations at consulate or embassy level. The PA does both. That's a serious violation of international law, aided and abetted by the international community.
    https://ecf.org.il/media_items/624

    Keep the above in mind every time you feel the need to emphasize the fabled UN observer status of the PA.

    Back to war. How did it start over 20 years ago?
     
  18. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I hope you don't mind that I didn't quote your entire post.

    The PLO was created, trained, and funded by the Soviet Bear. They had the support of the former communist countries in Eastern Europe. Their brand of propaganda is unmistakably far left, using human rights language to convey a hateful message that has nothing to do with human rights.

    Sources:
    https://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/...king-soviet-bloc-intel-officer-to-ever-defect
    https://webhome.weizmann.ac.il/home/comartin/israel/pacepa-wsj.html
    https://www.rferl.org/a/soviet-islamist-terrorism-israel-america-disinformation-pacepa/25034290.html

    Abbas was a KGB asset himself:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-abbas-idUSKCN11E1U0

    Hamas is supported by Iran and Turkey, both financially and ideologically.

    Palestinians are far more versed in propaganda tactics than Israel. Let's not forget that they also have 2000 years old prejudices on their side.
     
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  19. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are the Edomite also from Khasaria?
    Yes, they are:
    The agenda started back when the Edomite Bolshevik Jews financed Hitler's rise to power in Germany to set up the conditions to establish their own Nation of Israel for Illuminati rule and that is exactly what happened with the Nazi Holocaust.

    Who was behind the holocaust? The Edomite Jews. Why? Because they wanted to get rid of the Torah believing Jews and establish a Babylonian Talmudic Jewish nation in Israel. And that is what we have today with Zionism. Talmudic Jews ruling, pushing the agenda of the New World Order and Illuminati to set the nation up for the rule of the Antichrist.

    Edomite Jews are not real bloodline Jews.

    In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 Yahweh says that there are those claiming to be Jews, but are not Jews, and are liars. They are the church of Satan, the synagogue of Satan and are worshipers and followers of him.

    And what are they doing today? Conquering the world for the Antichrist to rule from Jerusalem. In every nation, in every major event, the Edomite Jews have been behind it. Although the Edomite Jews dominate Israel today there are a remnant of real bloodline Jews there as well. These are the ones the Lord will protect during the Great Tribulation.

    Look at America today, who is running the White House? The Edomite Jews and Sons of Cain. Who was arrested for treason during WW 2 by Congress for trading with the enemy? Prescott Bush. Who announced the formation of the NWO in America? His son, George Bush, Sr. Who is president of America today? George Bush, Jr. What do the Bush's have in common with Edomite Jews? They are all part of the serpent seedline of the Illuminati.
    ....
    So what do we have today? The false Jews in Israel being called real Jews. And the real "Jews" not even knowing who they are. We are being led to believe by the churches today that Satan's chosen are Yahweh's chosen people. Now are you ready to scream?

    Orthodox, Reformed, and Messianic Jews disown the Jews running Zionism in Israel today. Not only are they Edomite Jews, but they are also known as the Khazar Jews as well. In 692 A.D. the Khazar Kingdom was established.
    ....
    They had infiltrated as the Pharisees in Jesus era and still dominate the "Jewish' nation today. And these are the ones the churches believe are the "chosen" ones of the Lord. If they did 5 minutes of research into Israel today they would realize their error. Instead, they keep recycling errors and falsehoods week after week, month after month, year after year.

    We are told by our churches that we must support Israel or the Lord will bring His judgment on this nation when it is the fact that we are supporting them that IS BRINGING His judgment on this nation. Israel today is the prophecy of evil figs of Jeremiah chapters 21-24 and the evil fig tree that Yahweh cursed. He wasn't cursing His own people, but those He hates, the serpent seedlines of Esau and Cain.

    Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done." Mountain is often symbolic of government or authority.

    The evil fig tree is the false Jews, the chosen people of Satan. He's telling us to rid the earth of the authority of the Edomites and certainly not to support it.

    Read on here...
    https://www.truthcontrol.com/articl...s that lived among them and proseletyzed them.
    -------
    Time for me to sleep.
    Thanks, Tejas, for reminding me of this historic lie. Benjamin Freedman already warned the American people about the Khazars in 1961.
     
  20. Tejas

    Tejas Active Member

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    .

    Most of what people have been taught about Hitler is evil Edomite-jew propaganda.

    In his autobiography, "Mein Kampf", Hitler said he was doing the Lord's work by fighting against the evil [Edomite] "Jews." Hitler also said if the "Jews" ever did take over Palestine, they would turn it into an evil international haven for criminals and thieves !!

    Hitler [with Russians fighting along side the Germans] was in the process of liberating Russian lands from the evil church-destroying mass-murdering Edomite-jew-bolsheviks when US president FDR began sending mass-murderer Bolshevik Stalin BILLIONS of dollars in military aid [lend-lease] and weapons [trucks, tanks, planes, etc] to fight against Hitler.
     
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  21. RoccoR

    RoccoR Active Member Past Donor

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    RE: Israel Destroys and Steals More Land in West Bank
    SUBTOPIC: Propaganda
    ⁜→ Pisa, et al,

    BLUF: Excellent Post

    (COMMENT)

    I agree. I think this is an inciteful observation.


    (COMMENT)

    In the days of the Soviet Threat, their foreign intelligence services, while using similar intelligence asset acquisition techniques, had very different levels of control and reliability. While it is most probable that many assessors believed that Mahmoud ABBAS was "their HUMINT resource," ABBAS was (more than likely) pimping himself off to any and all recruiters that availed themselves. I don't think ABBAS was a controlled source for any one particular Foreign Intelligence Service (FIS). But rather, exploiting the weakness inherent in the secrecy of HUMINT to collect the benefits from each of the concerned FIS program; feeding them just enough true information and verifiable insider information so that HE remained on the payroll. In fact some believed that HE would give Yasser Arafat an idea, which Arafat would claim as his own. Then ABBAS would give HIS Soviet handler certain pieces of incomplete insider information (I3) on the Arafat idea and then → give HIS Egyptian and Italian handlers just enough overlapping information that each would tend to confirm the other and "all three" FISs would consider ABBAS as a reliable source of information.


    (COMMENT)

    While the Iranians boast about their influence over HAMAS, that influence has been dwindling over the last decade as the Israeli counterintelligence apparatus has slowly choked the conduit between the two. Turkey is supportive of the Arab Palestinian although I am not altogether sure I really understand that.

    (COMMENT)

    Yes, this is, in many respects true. I guess I should have said the more advanced Israel has been in Human Development would lead to more funding availability in Public Diplomacy (not that it is better). You are (in my opinion) better stating the reality. I was trying to answer the question on the disparity in funding.

    upload_2021-2-27_7-9-44.png
    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  22. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Jordan is Palestine.
    80% or more Jordanians are Palestinians.
    They are ruled by Ashamite minority..
    It's only a matter or time that they will take over King Hussain's kingdom and rule Jordan.
    As said in Arabic - Inshallahh.
     
  23. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I must admit that I am having trouble trying to understand exactly what thoughts you are trying to communicate.
    For example, I do not understand the meaning of BLUF nor, after clicking on the links you provided do I understand which of my thoughts resonated with you.

    It was not my intent to denigrate @MGB ROADSTER and I have said nothing to you that I have not said to him directly. It is perhaps because I find the atrocities committed by the Israeli government so repulsive that I am strongly offended by attempts to excuse the inexcusable. At any rate, I am not in the habit of discussing other Posters and should not have brought him up. For that, I apologize to you both.

    In reading and re reading your extensive and detailed comment it appears that we view the Palestine - Israel history and conflict differently.
    Since I feel that our opinions are a product of our experiences and the information we have absorbed during our lifetime and I have spent time in Palestinian refugee camps and apparently been exposed to different information, I am more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause than you.

    Additionally, I spent 10 - 11 months hitch-hiking and walking throughout the Islamic Mid-East where I learned, among other things, that the Arabs have very long memories and the history of Palestinian misery at the hands of Zionist terrorist gangs and the Colonial powers has been severely repressed in the West.

    While I am fully supportive of Israel's right to exist it would be hypocritical of me to wish anything less for the occupied Palestinian people who have been persecuted, robbed, tormented and betrayed as far back as the Colonial abrogation of the McMahon Agreement(1)

    It is not surprising, then, that you are unaware of the extent to which Israel's ethnic cleansers have deployed Genotoxic, N.D.U., D.U., Experimental, Chemical ordinance and D.I.M.E. bombs that sterilize living inhabitants & ensure birth deaths & birth malformations of children not yet born (2), (3), (4)

    In additional gratuitous attempts to inflict misery and exterminate Palestine's native residents, Israel targets children(5) as well as Palestine's food gatherers and producers. For the sake of brevity, I'll only cite 2 examples:

    “Israel fires at Gaza boats, kills Palestinian fisherman: hospital officials”
    Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/07/us-israel-palestinians-idUSKBN0M30HP20150307#ZWIs3J97 zbCT54DK.99

    EXCERPT “The Israeli navy opened fire on boats off the coast of the Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing one Palestinian fisherman, Gaza hospital officials said.
    Citing security concerns, Israel keeps a naval blockade on Gaza, .....and has designated a six nautical-mile fishing zone off the enclave's coast."CONTINUED

    AND}

    “Israel Sprays Farms In Gaza With Poisonous Chemicals (Video)”
    http://yournewswire.com/israel-spray...emicals-video/

    EXCERPT “Israeli pesticide planes sprayed Gaza’s agricultural lands east of Gaza in recent days causing huge damage to the crops in a very short space of time.

    “When I arrived on my farm on Wednesday morning, I was surprised when I saw an Israeli farming plane crossing the borders towards farms inside Gaza,” farmer Ahmed Badawi said. “The plane started to spray unidentified chemicals.”

    Mahmoud Dalloul, another farmer in a different area near the border, said that this was not the first time that the Israeli occupation sprayed poisonous chemicals on their plants.CONTINUED

    -------------------------
    As if poisoning Palestinian crops was not egregious enough, Israel's illegal, foreign "Settlers" use raw sewage to poison Palestinian drinking water and crops(6).

    The criminal abuses I have listed so far are simply daily atrocities that Palestine's native residents have been forced to endure simply for living on land coveted by foreign Zionist terrorists. A far greater number of Palestinian lives have been lost by Israeli initiated "wars" such as "Operation Cast Lead", "Pillar of Cloud", and "Operation Cutting Edge". These "wars" have allowed Israel to exterminate Palestinians by the thousands with only a handful of regrettable Israeli casualties.

    Re:
    As I asked earlier, can you think of any brutally occupied people who have not resisted such a clear cut and ruthless ethnic cleansing agenda that dates back to Plan Dalet(7).

    Thanks,


    (1) "The McMahon Agreement"
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.u...ddle-east-1917-to-1973/the-mcmahon-agreement/


    EXCERPT "The McMahon-Hussein Agreement of October 1915 was accepted by Palestinians as a promise by the British that after World War One, land previously held by the Turks would be returned to the Arab nationals who lived in that land. The McMahon-Hussein Agreement was to greatly complicate Middle East history and seemed to directly clash with the Balfour Declaration of 1917."CONTINUED


    (2) “CONSEQUENCES OF ISRAELI WEAPONS TESTING ON GAZA
    http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspo...s-testing.html


    (3) “Gaza sees more newborns of malformation”
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...t_12737744.htm


    (4) “The DIME Bomb: Yet another genotoxic weapon, Part III”
    https://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=5748

    EXCERPT “ Since early July, Israeli forces have been using a new weapon in the Gaza Strip that inflicts strange and deadly wounds....

    .......DU & NDU bombs are converted to micron-sized particles that sicken and kill and murder the next generation in the womb.”CONTINUED


    (5) “Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It”
    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08...-you-share-it/


    (6) “DEMONSTRATING THE HARMFUL EFFECTS CAUSED THROUGH THE ILLEGAL ISRAELI SETTLEMENT PRACTICE OF DUMPING WASTEWATER ONTO PALESTINIAN AGRICULTURAL LANDS”
    http://www.arij.org/latest-news/479-...ral-lands.html

    EXCERPT “(*)Israeli settlements are illegally dumping wastewater onto Palestinian villages, farmlands and agricultural lands. This practice has devastating effects on the Palestinian lands, both reducing and preventing any agricultural production, livestock farming and infecting previously safe drinking water. The accumulative effect of these issues has resulted in an economic downturn, increases in disease and health problems, an increase in poverty and often the slow migration of Palestinians to other areas where they have more potential for earning and farming which only further compounds the issue of internal displacement.”CONTINUED


    (7) "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels...estine/5326140
     
  24. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True, the media is mostly controlled by world-Jewry, 96% I think. That's why one frequently comes upon empty sites with ERROR stamped across. Israel bans some particularly critical articles.

    Re: Harming IDF carries the death sentence for Pals! But the IDF with their sharpshooters is encouraged to kill Palestinians:

    Israeli soldiers routinely ordered to kill innocent Palestinians

    Israeli troops have exposed routine orders to shoot dead unarmed Palestinian civilians including women and children for no reason whatsoever. This is an open admission of mass-murder and ethnic cleansing; this is genocide, it is a holocaust. ***

    Israeli soldiers tell of indiscriminate killings by army and a culture of impunity.

    From a distance of 70 metres and through the sight of his machine gun, Assaf could tell that the Palestinian man was aged between 20 and 30, unarmed and trying to get away from an Israeli tank. But the details didn't matter much, because Assaf's orders were to "fire at anything that moved".

    http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=1503

    I strongly suspect that the young settler murderer, who burned a baby and its Mom and Dad and almost killed the older brother, got a new identity and is back in some different settlement. His four life sentences are only for show.

    Re: it has been a 70-year policy of the HoAP that has been the prime mover in the violence.
    Well, doesn't it take two to tango? The Israelis were the invaders, they started the land theft. It is up to them to stop and reverse that and pay compensation for all the pain and damage they have since caused. How are they otherwise justifying their demands for payments from Germany for the past 80 or so years?
    What is good for the goose is also good for the gander!

    Anyway, this subject always ends in a deadlock and is not worth continuing, unless something new and outrageous is added, like this....

    ICC has no choice but to investigate settlements as a war crime, a game changer in power politics

    The ruling by the International Criminal Court that it has jurisdiction to investigate Israeli war crimes in the occupied territories has introduced a “major new actor” into the power politics of the conflict, and sent a chill through the Israeli government to the point that it has abandoned plans to remove Palestinian villages in the West Bank, says Michael Sfard, the Israeli human rights attorney.


    Sfard said that court cannot “evade” an investigation and even prosecution of Israeli officials over the illegal settlements policy in the West Bank. And this means that Israel can no longer ignore European countries, including Germany, Britain, France, the Netherlands, and Scandinavian nations, that have repeatedly called on it to end the settlements.

    Oh my! Read on here:

    https://mondoweiss.net/2021/02/icc-...-a-war-crime-a-game-changer-in-power-politics.
     
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  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Israel is clearly breaking the UN charter, which they signed.

    Israel has perpetrated the war for 20 years by refusing to negotiate. The Oslo accords committed Israel to negotiations on borders and today Israel even refuses to simply negotiate an end to the one-sided war they have waged against Palestine - a war in which Palestine has ZERO defense.

    Suggesting it's a crime for Palestine to join the UN and making itself subject to its charter is just more Israeli sophistry.
     

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