Israel: US Asks Iran to Not Sink an American Carrier, “Just Kill Some Troops Instead”

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sobo, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Funny enough, the dems could've had all they wanted if they were willing to compromised on what Trump wanted. Case in point, the dreamers program which Trump was willing to normalise their situation in exchange for funding for the wall. Instead they sacrificed them on the altar of their hurt feefees..
     
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  2. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Sure.
    Once you start assassinating your foes in a foreign country without a really good reason you open up all your diplomats to the same treatment.
     
  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    He was a terrorist. I can't imagine why you think defending a terrorist is a good look.
     
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Obama absolutely played by the rules in this negotiated deal with Iran.

    From the point of view of the entire world, America signed a multinational deal limitin Iran's nuclear progress and requiring inspections, and Trump vacated that deal.

    The question becomes what value is there in having a US president sign a deal.

    Trump SAYS he is willing to have a deal. But, there WAS a deal involving multiple nations, and Trump reneged.

    Now, the other signees are workig together, with Trump being a major problem, not a help.
     
  5. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Well, you ask.
    I'm sure US diplomats aren't real happy having targets on their backs now. But you will be okay if Iran kills a few in say Paris or Madrid.
     
  6. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    The main objective being to keep Iran from building a nuclear weapon, and given that our allies are making so much progress, why do we need to be party to their agreement?
     
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    ??
    Who says they are making so much progress?

    Iran ended nuclear inspections due to Trump's recent actions.

    Obviously, that is a huge setback.

    Plus, with Trump unwilling to join their effort - making any negotiation far more difficult.

    After all, Iran's need for nuclear weapons isn't based on threats from Europe.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Because killing a terrorist is exactly the same as killing a legitimate diplomat.

    Gotcha.
     
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  9. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the law(s) note any difference.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So the killing of al-Baghdadi and Bin Ladin were "crimes?"
     
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  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think diplomats enjoy a right of immunity when on diplomatic missions. The reason is that it is a requirement for any legitimate progress.

    In this case I think the bigger issue is that killing this one guy is clearly not worth the ramifications.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Al Baghdadi killed himself, making issues of legality murkey at best.

    From the standpoint of realpolitic, the ramifications for assassinating bin Ladin were far less than those for the more recent assassination.
     
  13. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    I think people who survived the damage he planned and executed and the families of those who did not would disagree with you.
     
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  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I do too! I'd also note that we've seen unbelievable acts of forgiveness on and individual and country wide basis during the last decades.

    Regardless, that's not how our concept of law works. Our concept of law is based on advantage for our society as a whole, not for the revenge desired by victims.

    We even go so far as to have statutes of limitation such that for almost all punishable misdeeds and monetary debt people are free after some period of time. Not many victims like that, but it is better for society that we don't have huge numbers of people living lives of running from the law.
     
  15. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    The man was waging war on the US and our allies for 40 years. Now he's a dead warrior honored by the tyrants he served and spit on by those he persecuted. Good riddance and kudos to the man who triggered the hellfires and the President that ordered the attack.
     
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  16. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    No. They were not state actors.
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying that killing Bin Ladin was a crime then?
     
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  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying there is no legal way to go after state sponsored terrorism?
     
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  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So Soleimani was a diplomat on a diplomatic mission? Still waiting for you to source that...
     
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  20. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    There is. Why don't you find out instead of asking me?
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You keep dodging and ignoring what I've said.

    The issue goes deeper than just sussing out whether we have a legal right to assassinate someone.

    The ad hoc nnature of this attack, the failure to notify our allies or the gang of 8, the failed attempt at a clear story from the administraion, and other factors having no followup direction, mark us as having NO CLUE what we're doing.

    This assassination probably grows support for Iran's leadership while moving Iraq away from influence by our leadership. And, our own allies aren't happy, either, as it hamstrings their attempts to negotiate.
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not making the claim that killing Soleimani was a crime, you are.
     
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  23. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not dodging anything. You are by not backing up your ridiculous claim that Soleimani was on a diplomatic mission. Please source that.
     
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  24. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Your getting into the fine print.

    A diplomatic mission or foreign mission is a group of people from one state or an organisation present in another state to represent the sending state/organisation officially in the receiving state. Wikipedia
     
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  25. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Your question is not about that.
     

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