It's amazing the lengths women will go who WANT to have a baby

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Unmangle it for us, and explain why autonomy doesn't equal responsibility when it comes to women. Explain why autonomy for other does equal responsibility, but not for women. And tell us who you think should be responsible for women's bodies.

    Go ahead, we'd love to hear your explanation.
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    because I know there's a difference between bodily autonomy and your "bodily responsibility"

    No, I said (several times now) """there's a difference between bodily autonomy and your "bodily responsibility"""""

    It is in clear English so if you can't understand....maybe study English a bit more ????

    LOL, another one who wants to interpret English in a weird way BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO REAL POINT.
     
  3. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    And uh, Catholic women couldn't use birth control...it was a sin.



    OH there you go again,

    ""The Great Kaz""" who knows all women , sees all women, knows what all women go through ...like a god....Do you think you are God?
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Will women be upset if they're not allowed to control their fetus?
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    I think you're upset because you can't control others....that's not good...



    Of course they would, it's part of THEIR body.

    And that has nothing to do with your desire to control OTHERS (not good)....if a woman is pregnant there is no "other", just her and HER body.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "
    Pro-choicers often point to the trouble pregnancy brings upon a woman... but most of these same women WOULD go to extreme lengths later in their life if they found themselves unable to get pregnant.
    They likely will. Abortion, especially multiple abortions, increases a woman's rate of fertility problems later, as well as increasing the rate of miscarriages."

    this is why pro-choicers support them doing the choosing for themselves and not having the government choose for them
     
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  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you mean if they were forced to have their rapists baby, yeah, sure they would be upset and rightly so
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you basically conceeding that I am right, or were you unable to realize the point of the opening post?
     
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with allowing people to choose for themselves, that you, I or the government should not be choosing for them, this is a personal choice

    and I also agree with you here, as you stated in your opening post

    "Now while this story is a little bit more of an extreme case, I think it's safe to say most women will go to great lengths to be pregnant when they want to have a baby, when they feel the time is right."

    is that 'conceding' that you are right? I just think it's agree with what you said there
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you do realize that this is exactly why Conservative Libertarians are against abortion?

    In an abortion, the woman is making a choice concerning her preborn child.

    The little child cannot choose.

    I think there are some parallels to sexual abuse here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  11. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't it your goal to stamp out babies being born? All you seem to want is more and more abortions.
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You may not know this but there are hundreds of thousands of pro choice women who want the right to terminate their kids up to the age where the child can survive on it's own. Do you want the Government to have any say so at all over this desire?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the point was that for most women the issue is much more about her timing than it is any sufferings or risks from pregnancy.

    Which obviously severely weakens the whole argument that the routine unpleasantries of pregnancy justify abortion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nope, that is not the goal, is your goal to have more babies being born, overpopulation? why would the right support overpopulation? Forcing people to have more babies than they want to have?

    we just support not forcing people to have children, we feel that should be their choice, not the governments
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, some already have children and do not want another, ect...... whatever their choice, it should be their choice, not the governments

    parents have lost their lives and limbs giving birth, they should be the ones to choose to take that risk
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and remember, a miscarriage is also called an abortion, it's just a natural one, not medically induced

    most women have had many abortions in their lifetimes without even knowing it
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Give us your lovely proven results of why abortions are so excellent?
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OKAY I understand Children are just some damned nuisance.
     
  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    is that what you think?
     
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  20. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have two wonderful girls. Both have two children. So of course I think my children are a blessing to me and their moms.
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is great, glad you were able to choose to have two wonderful girls, I do not think the government should be able to take that choice away from you or others
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    The "unpleasantries of pregnancy""??? Says one who was never pregnant nor will be nor knows anything about it.

    VERY denigrating to women who get pregnant and women in general...misogyny at it's finest to call the following "unpleasantries":

    Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

    • exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
    • altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
    • nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
    • heartburn and indigestion
    • constipation
    • weight gain
    • dizziness and light-headedness
    • bloating, swelling, fluid retention
    • hemmorhoids
    • abdominal cramps
    • yeast infections
    • congested, bloody nose
    • acne and mild skin disorders
    • skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
    • mild to severe backache and strain
    • increased headaches
    • difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
    • increased urination and incontinence
    • bleeding gums
    • pica
    • breast pain and discharge
    • swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
      (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
    • extreme pain on delivery
    • hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
    • continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)
    Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

    • stretch marks (worse in younger women)
    • loose skin
    • permanent weight gain or redistribution
    • abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
    • pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
    • changes to breasts
    • increased foot size
    • varicose veins
    • scarring from episiotomy or c-section
    • other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
    • increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
    • loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
    • higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
    • newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)
    Occasional complications and side effects:

    • complications of episiotomy
    • spousal/partner abuse
    • hyperemesis gravidarum
    • temporary and permanent injury to back
    • severe scarring requiring later surgery
      (especially after additional pregnancies)
    • dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
    • pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
    • eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
    • gestational diabetes
    • placenta previa
    • anemia (which can be life-threatening)
    • thrombocytopenic purpura
    • severe cramping
    • embolism (blood clots)
    • medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
    • diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
    • mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
    • serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
    • hormonal imbalance
    • ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
    • broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
    • hemorrhage and
    • numerous other complications of delivery
    • refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
    • aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
    • severe post-partum depression and psychosis
    • research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
    • research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
    • research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease
    Less common (but serious) complications:

    • peripartum cardiomyopathy
    • cardiopulmonary arrest
    • magnesium toxicity
    • severe hypoxemia/acidosis
    • massive embolism
    • increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
    • molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
      (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
    • malignant arrhythmia
    • circulatory collapse
    • placental abruption
    • obstetric fistula
    More permanent side effects:


    • future infertility
    • permanent disability
    • death.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
  23. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yet in post 93 you say """OKAY I understand Children are just some damned nuisance.""


    Which is it?
     
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Give me your lovely proof that I ever said "abortions are so excellent" OR ADMIT YOU MADE THAT UP , which you did.
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Nearly 5.5% (80/1464) of pregnancies in the abortion cohort ended in miscarriage, compared with 4.0% (57/1427) in the reference cohort.

    So, not much difference.

    And I find it hard to believe that anyone who wants to destroy women's right to their own bodies really cares...



    No, I never indicated that at all....that's just another figment of your rabid imagination at work....out of your desperation to ever have any kind of argument ..

    Making things up proves one has no facts or arguments.
     

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