It's amazing the lengths women will go who WANT to have a baby

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OH! You got it (sort of)

    Autonomy is not responsibility......... that does NOT mean that I said women shouldn't be responsible...and you should really stop alleging I did especially with no proof I did...

    Responsibility is not bodily autonomy ...that doesn't mean I don't think women should have bodily autonomy.

    Bodily autonomy and responsibility are two different things, that's why there are different words for them.
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Which I don't...

    That's you putting words in my mouth....something you don't like others to do to you but you do with great frequency...
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,485
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So tell us who is responsible for women's bodies (put aside the autonomy, since as you say .. it's an entirely different matter).
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,485
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Correct me then .. tell me who is RESPONSIBLE for those female bodies.
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FoxHastings said:
    Responsibility is not bodily autonomy ...that doesn't mean I don't think women should have bodily autonomy.

    Bodily autonomy and responsibility are two different things, that's why there are different words for them.

    Why put it aside when THAT was what I was discussing???

    Just because you may not know what it means doesn't mean it will be "put aside"...


    Why don't you know who is responsible for women's bodies??....that is a very strange question.......do you think they are owned by someone who has responsibility for their bodies???
     
    Ritter likes this.
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,485
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1) As you keep insisting. So since you insist they're different things, who is responsible for women's bodies?

    2) As you keep insisting. So who is responsible for the 'different thing' (responsibility)? Is that men, or god .. ?

    3) Because you keep saying the two concepts aren't inextricably linked. That means we can separate them, yes?
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FoxHastings said:
    Responsibility is not bodily autonomy ..

    Bodily autonomy and responsibility are two different things, that's why there are different words for them.

    Why put it aside when THAT was what I was discussing???



    Why don't you know who is responsible for women's bodies??....that is a very strange question.......do you think they are owned by someone who has responsibility for their bodies???




    WTF would men or god have to do with women's responsibilities? Not a DAMN THING....did you think men or god own women !!!!!!!!






    Yes.

    And the discussion I was having was about bodily autonomy and NOT "responsibility."..
     
    Ritter likes this.
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    24,505
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one is responsible if no one is taking responsibility.
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That doesn't make sense....
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,485
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It makes total sense.

    You keep stressing that while women have autonomy, they don't have responsibility for their bodies. That means someone else must be responsible for women's bodies. But if you then claim that no one else is responsible - and women themselves aren't - then logically NO ONE is responsibile for women's bodies. They're just lemmings for the universe.
     
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    48,485
    Likes Received:
    14,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1) So WOMEN are responsible for their own bodies? Yes or no? If no, then who is? It's a strange question because it's a very strange premise .. that women aren't responsible for their own bodies. You need to get square with yourself on this.

    2) I don't know .. you're the one saying that autonomy doesn't mean responsibility. Again, if women aren't responsible, who is? Answering that is your obligation, since you're the one with the premise of no female responsibility.

    3) Yes, you are saying that autonomy does not mean responsibility. You think women can't or shouldn't be responsible for their bodies. You want to 'give' them autonomy, but you refuse them responsibility.
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FoxHastings said:
    Why don't you know who is responsible for women's bodies??....that is a very strange question.......do you think they are owned by someone who has responsibility for their bodies???

    WTF would men or god have to do with women's responsibilities? Not a DAMN THING....did you think men or god own women !!!!!!!!

    And the discussion I was having was about bodily autonomy and NOT "responsibility."..
     
    Ritter likes this.
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I never said that, YOU have NO proof as you NEVER have proof of anything... and if you keep putting words in my mouth I will report you as it's against the rules.

    Putting words in my mouth means you have NO argument and you know it :) so you have to make up stuff....Hilariously pathetic...



    .


    :) Yes, Virginia, women can be misogynists, too.
     
  14. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,555
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course they are and that is exactly what the unwillingly pregnant woman is being when she chooses abortion.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    24,505
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Autonomy means no one else will hold the woman to her responsibilities. Autonomy does not mean the person or entity has no responsibilities; it just means there is no one immediately holding them to those responsibilities, they don't have to formally answer to anyone for their choices.

    Those who believe in autonomy in situations typically do so because they believe those responsibilities should not exist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113


    No, it doesn't.


    ;



    No, it doesn't....it doesn't have anything to do with "responsibilities"...




    :) Again you have proven that you have no idea what the right of bodily autonomy is...
     
    Ritter likes this.
  17. Winter Sun

    Winter Sun Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Female
    There is no evidence that having an abortion will cause multiple miscarriages. I really disagree with ever blaming women for having a miscarriage.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    24,505
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, that depends on exactly what we mean by "blaming".

    We can't prove for certain that the negative thing that happened was the result of her actions, but it is a possibility.

    You know, years ago, I was the witness to a traffic accident where someone was killed. A teenager who had presumably been smoking a joint of marijuana hit his big truck into an elderly couple and killed an old woman. Of course there were multiple other factors in that situation that probably contributed to the accident. I didn't think it was fair to automatically blame the teenager. But everyone else I talked to believed that the teenager should be held responsible and that it was entirely fair to presume that his decision to use the drug (which he was not supposed to while driving) caused the death.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  19. Winter Sun

    Winter Sun Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Female
    But you’re talking about holding a woman responsible for having a miscarriage. That would anger and deeply hurt women who have miscarriages.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    24,505
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    People who are involved in car accidents and accidentally kill someone through no fault of their own are not blamed.
    They are blamed if they were doing something like smoking marijuana at the time that may have caused the accident.

    No one will blame a woman for having a miscarriage if she had not been doing anything unusual that could have caused the miscarriage.
    But if she went on an alcoholic drinking binge and snorted cocaine the previous night, and then had a miscarriage, people will blame her.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  21. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113

    So you want every miscarriage investigated...causing more pain to women who had miscarriages so you can stand outside their homes and point a finger....and you don't find that odd??????
     
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    24,505
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Would it really be that different from investigating unexplained infant deaths?

    Are you aware that most of the time infant deaths are not investigated, or not investigated very intensively? Typically they only investigate them if they have some obvious reason to suspect foul play.
     
  23. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    8,555
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Responsibility is a chosen, bpdily autonomy is a right. One can choose to be irresponsible with their body. They are not the same.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    53,784
    Likes Received:
    19,924
    Trophy Points:
    113
    YES a HUGE difference...in an infant's death there is an INFANT....a BORN PERSON

    In abortion there isn't.



    Ya...SO? Nothing to do with abortion....


    AS USUAL you ignored that INCONVENIENT part of the post of mine you quoted:

    """""So you want every miscarriage investigated...causing more pain to women who had miscarriages so you can stand outside their homes and point a finger....and you don't find that odd??????"""""
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    24,505
    Likes Received:
    7,677
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds like you've just deflected back to another issue in the abortion debate.

    I don't believe you are arguing in good faith.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021

Share This Page