It's time to get serious on the issue of gun violence

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lucifer, May 18, 2022.

  1. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    Using the current form of “legal logic” these days, the 2nd amendment doesn’t say a damn thing about ammo. In fact, when the Constitution was written, a bullet was a lead ball rammed down a barrel as the last part of a two-step process. The bullet and the gunpowder were separate components.


    Why can’t we legislate a ban on certain calibers? Or at the very least, seasonal restrictions and purchase limits on them. Or taxing the hell out of them?


    I have always said that Stein’s Law will eventually prevail when the public outcry over our relationship with guns demands it, and it will be a bad day for 2nd amendment advocates. For well over 40 years, the gun lobby has gotten what they’ve wanted. While the government cannot directly count how many guns are sold each year, we can see production numbers and count the number of background checks, though it doesn’t differentiate between a single purchase or multiple. Those numbers show that every year between 2010 and 2020, production numbers doubled year over year. During this pandemic alone, it is estimated 400 million guns were purchased.

    And to the mix, we have the laws that practically encourage more gun violence. I am talking about Stand Your Ground laws. The evidence is crystal clear, it increases homicides.




    If ammo was more restrictive, do you think it could curb the degree of gun violence without violating the 2nd?

    I want to hear solutions, not more of the same bullshit NRA talking points.
     
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  2. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    No. Don’t get serious on guns. Get serious on ending white supremacy and reducing right wing radicalization in the US.
     
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  3. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Who do you think is buying all the ammo now?
     
  4. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I believe the issue is more complicated than that.
    I have yet to meet any 2A proponents that have used their weapons for any reason other than shooting at inanimate objects. They argue that a "good guy with a gun beats a bad guy with a gun" but very few people actually rise to the defense of others so that's just their way of rationalizing their pushback on this issue.

    Nevertheless, people have to retrain their brains to accept that a person INTENT on killing somebody will find a way whether it's with a gun or their bare hands or anything in between.
     
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  5. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    True, but we don't need to make it easy for them to get them. What's next, gun purchases from vending machines?
     
  6. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You will never take ammo away from the people who want to harm others, just law abiding citizens. Last year 107,000 Americans died from drug overdoses, most of those drugs came from Mexico and China and smuggled across our border, even human beings are smuggled across the border, and so will ammo if it’s restricted here.

    Aside from completely ignoring overdose deaths because there’s no political advantage for the left to acknowledge them, if you want to slow down gun violence then do rational things instead of politically correct and emotional things. Increase stop and frisk. Pull surprise inspections on parolees and people out on bail. Better still, don’t give bail to criminals with a history of violence. Go after the people who commit the most murders in this country and you know who they are but saying so is racist. Go after the gangs.

    What kills me is 10 people get shot in Buffalo and that sparks an outrage, but ten people getting shot is what happens in a typical week in Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans, Chicago and other places and no one on the left says a word, nothing, not even blm or Biden. In other words, your emotions are being fuct with and you can’t see it because emotions are what drives you to do what you do.

    I’ll bet you anything you want that if you banned ammo or taxed it out the ass, the criminals who do all the murdering will still have ammo, but you might not.

    107,000 overdose deaths last year and not one person on the left gives a crap because it involves illegals and border security. 203 people have been shot and killed in Chicago and not one person on the left gives a crap because of who is doing all the murdering. Same thing in Chicago, St. Louis, etc. St Louis is one of the top most dangerous cities in the world and no one on the left cares.
     
  7. Big Richard

    Big Richard Well-Known Member

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    Get the guns out of the hands of the punks and thugs who’s demographic show they generally vote for the Biden’s and Obama’s. Get rid of liberal judges who let killers out on bond or with stupidity low prison sentences. Add more and better trained police in the high thuggery, high Dem voter areas like Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit and Memphis to name only a few. Fire the bleeding hearts in these city’s police and mayoral offices and replace with no nonsense conservatives.
    Here’s one….mandatory 5 years prison sentences for anyone committing a felony with a gun. This in addition to the sentence for the actual felony sentence.

    I was checking and cleaning my firearms this past weekend and it looks like none of mine has ever killed anyone. Nor has any of mine even committed a crime.

    If ammo was made more restricted on purpose than that would be a violation of the 2nd.

    Libs control both houses and the potus. Where is stupid Xoes gun control plans? Now would be the time for the libs to ram em thru but no it’s not gonna happen and I think you all know why.
     
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  8. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    First time gun owners who have become radicalized themselves, and those who are already radicalized because we failed to understand root out the causes of radicalization.
     
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  9. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol….what a frigging stupid comment, and I mean absolutely stupid. White supremacists, both of them, don’t have a body count anywhere near as high as inner city gangs. Since you brought up race, How about getting rid of black gang bangers, they’re the ones committing the most murders.
     
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  10. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Muslims taught you anything it should be that there are many ways to kill lots of people at once. Thanks to them we have body scanners at airports and have to take off our shoes.
     
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  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Race baiting is why we have to stop white supremacy. You’re right. Terrorism isn’t a threat really. It’s pretty rare. The real threat comes from the exposure to radical beliefs from their violence. Because the people listening to the violence will say things like this post and then vote accordingly.
     
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  12. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Banning ammunition infringes on the 2nd Amendment, since you can't defend yourself with an unloaded firearm.

    If you're serious about curbing gun violence, then put more bad guys in jail. Fewer criminals = fewer crimes.
     
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  13. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    But the BLM riots are acceptable. Right?
     
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  14. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    How come the only two options are no guns, or gun purchases from vending machines?
     
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  15. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Please see post you quoted for my response. Remember what the Department of Justice said why Ferguson went up in flames. A repeated history of racism by the police, city and state that provided the necessary tinder for the conflagration.
     
  16. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Of course not.

    However, the reason that so many people fail at dieting is the human brain doesn't like the word "lack" or "deny" or "deprivation". 2As don't plan to and won't engage in vigilantism. They just don't want to give up their guns. That's it. They don't care if the situation leads to school shootings or execution of black people in Buffalo. They want their guns because they have a right to have them. Nothing more. And, as with all rules and regulations, they only work for people that care about laws. Criminals don't fit the bill.

    Personally, I am grieving the loss of what I believed our country stood for. We aren't Christian, loving, forgiving, tolerant or reasonable.
     
  17. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    How’s the war on drugs, going?

    I really wish the loons from both sides would stop looking at the thing they understand the least, as the most evil thing ever.

    Guns are here, it’s a right, get over it.
     
  18. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    It also doesn't say anything about nukes, claymors, grendades, flamethrowers, etc. but there are infringements.

    So, we already legislate restrictions on arms, so we can legislate restriction on anything.
    But, society is the one that demands the legislation.
    That's what voting is for.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
  19. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I too argue with people that a good guy with a gun in a situation such as a mass shooting is a theoretical argument more so than a real world one. Sure it has happened before and there are quite a few documented cases of an armed citizen rising to the occasion but the reality is that most folks are going to run. Sure we all tell ourselves that "we" would stand up in the defense of others in such a scenario but most people would hide or run away even if they were armed. Few folks are willing to openly admit that primarily out of pride and/or false sense of reality but take it from someone who knows a thing or two about this. I don't care who you are, how much training you've had, how many movies you've watched, NOBODY has ANY IDEA WHATSOEVER how they will actually react when real bullets start flying. NOBODY. Intensive "realistic" training and discipline can hopefully help you get closer to the "not run or freak out" side of the fence but it's nowhere near foolproof.

    My pushback comes from the fact that there IS a 2nd Amendment and also the fact that there are more guns than people in the US, literally. Magically snap fingers and make ALL of them disappear and I'd be willing to have a discussion about amending the 2nd Amendment. As long as there are other folks running around with firearms then I'm keeping mine. I also personally believe that everyone has a right to defend themselves and their family and property. I'm nothing special I'm not a Navy SEAL or MMA fighter or anything but I'm a relatively capable average man who could overpower and hurt plenty of other people. If I decide to do harm to an average woman or elderly person for example then there is pretty much nothing they can do about it even if I didn't have a weapon. Again not trying to sound all tough and mighty but lets face reality here....If I decide to go break into my neighbors home and take her stuff or hurt her then there is nothing that 70 year old woman can really do about it except scream for help that isn't coming anytime soon because we live in the middle of nowhere.

    I can beat my neighbors into a pulp if I lose my mind and so desire. I can't stop a bullet. All of a sudden my helpless elderly neighbor has a very real chance at defending herself and her home against me with a gun in her possession. That is a 100% good thing. I shouldn't have the ability to harm others based on the fact that I can do so physically. Firearms are the great equalizer and I 100% support that.
     
  20. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    And why aren't the NRA talking points the solution? Millions of legally owned weapons and millions of rounds of ammo and you guys get berserk over a person who, legally, shouldn't have been allowed to own a gun. The system failed - fix that, rather than making up semantic reasons that would never stand a legal challenge.

    The framers granted the right to carry arms - IF they'd wanted to restrict the amount the ammo a law-abiding citizen could own, they'd have included that.
     
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  21. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Donor

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    That’s what vapid opponents of basic rights do.
     
  22. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Who so you think?
     
  23. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    White supremacy is a pimple on the ass of the nation. It's NOT the scary evil your controllers want you to believe. If it amounted to 1% of the total conservative side I'd be surprised. They're load and "in your face" types but squeeze the pimple and they'll be gone.
     
  24. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    How many conservatives have been exposed to white supremacist thinking like the replacement theory? I’ll give you a hint-what’s the average TV viewership rates for Tucker Carlson? Or those that helped propel Trump (who ran on the theory) into office?
     
  25. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Well said. We need to grasp that no matter how many laws we pass, they won't be 100% effective. The odds are several million to one that a gun owner will ever use it for crime.
     
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