Jesus can no longer hurt me (mentally)

Heaven and hell and all religious constructs come down to what you the individual wishes to believe.

Ultimately no one can tell you but you.

The louder one preaches to you the more confused and scared you know they are. Enlightened people won't preach. They just smile when you notice real simple stuff. The simpler it seems the more profound it gets.

 

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think God gives blessings to just anyone? No. They have to be earned. The rich man had to give up his riches to enter into the Kingdom of God. No one has entered that Kingdom as of yet. It's sacred but not secret. You just have to follow the laws and commandments to get there. Same with the Temple. This isn't difficult.
As to your reasoning for not engaging me, you seem to be close minded doing so.

 

Hell was added by Paul when he corrupted Jesus teachings with Roman ideas. It eventually lead to further corruption in the church as the church used it to buy away your sins in a get rich plot.

Consider only Jesus words and trust them. Do not worry about the teachings of the other books. Jesus words are God's words. Also know that death is not torment in hell, it's but the end.

Jesus repeatedly refers to death and hell has fires and destruction. He never said death and torment were eternal nor did any Jews believe that. Only the fires prepared for sinners, Satan and the fallen angels are eternal. Once judgment is cast they will be destroyed. There is also mention od God remaking us and being reborn.

Se below for what Judaism teaches
https://www.quora.com/Do-Jews-believe-in-rebirth

 

Another bogus statement about Paul and the understanding of the purpose of apostles and prophets. They are the mouth pieces for God. Scholars are not. Which includes the ancient Sanhedrin who were nothing more than scholars who perverted the words of God for their political purposes and their desire to be control freaks.
What do you mean only trust the words of Jesus? Those words of Jesus are found in books written by other apostles and scribes. There is no book of Jesus. Everything we get is from apostles and prophets which includes Paul.
You also make no sense in your third paragraph. You first say Jesus never said death and torment were eternal. Then, you say Jesus says the fires are prepared for sinners, Satan and the fallen angels ARE ETERNAL. You contradicted yourself. For sinners, death will be for unrepentant sinners. They may end up eternal damned with Satan and his fallen angels. Or, they may eventually repent before the judgment and resurrection and be received into one of the three degrees of Glory in Heaven.
When speaking of Jesus and teaching his truths, I'm not going to be taught by Jews. Why? That's stupid.

 

You do not 'earn' them. You are blessed by virtue of your faith and trust in him. He has blessed all of us with forgiveness and guidance and love, through his son Jesus Christ. Those who are not blessed is because they have rejected what was freely given.

We are blessed with the knowledge strength and faith to live a Christian life for it is that way of life that is its own blessing. It is not the car we drive or the money in our bank accounts, it is knowing that Jesus walks with us, loves us, and will ensure we have love in our lives and will see that love in its fullness when that life is over.

 

Someone has been pulling your chain mate - someone by the name of "Martin" - Author of the famous "On the Jews and their Lies"

Jesus did not claim you get a free pass through judgement - to the contrary - one must "Earn" that reward - and having faith in the sacrifice of Jesus has nothing to do with it.

 

While I agree that salvation must be earned .. your claim that the rich man had to give up his riches to gain entrance is false.

Your claim that one must follow Jewish Law is also false - the commandments yes - not Jewish Law.

 

You should read your writing before posting. I'll use your thought process. We are blessed by our faith and trust in Christ. But, we do not earn them. Huh??? If we don't have faith or trust in Christ, meaning keeping his commandments, then we still earn the same blessings as those who have faith and trust in Christ? That makes no sense. So, we do earn the blessings for keeping a Christ-like life.
What does it take to enter the Kingdom of God? Baptism. Before Baptism, faith and repentance. For, no one can enter without Baptism. Faith, repentance and Baptism are action words. Things we have to do before we receive that specific blessing. The only thing we will receive that is of "grace" is our resurrected bodies. Some Celestial, some terrestrial and some telestial. Others, of no glory of heaven at all. But, the resurrection is given by the grace of God with or without faith, trust, repentance or baptism.

 

Perhaps you need to listen to God's word more and less to mans

John 14:6 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Ephesians 2:8-9 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Galatians 2:16 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Matthew 22:34-40 34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: "'Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

1 John 4:7-12
English Standard Version

God Is Love
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

 

James 1:22, "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves"
James 2:17,18,21, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works...Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

So, what does this mean? The works, if be by the law only, cannot alone justify faith. But, faith in Christ is justified by the good works we do. Verse 26 says, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." So, what are these works? Everything required by having faith in Christ. Repentance, Baptism, Receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. These things are done by way of Priesthood ordinances.

Jesus says in Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."
John 3:5, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

There's always this battle from Christians today that try to put Paul and James against each other. But, they weren't. They understood that if a person really has faith in Christ, they will do those things they have been commanded to do. Such as, keeping the commandments that Jesus gave while on the earth. And, keep the commandments given to by any prophets before and after his resurrection as well that were not eliminated through his atonement. Such as chastity, no stealing, no homosexual acts and so forth...

 

Yes, but not earned. Works to earn something are not works of faith.

If you have faith, you will try to follow his commandments. If you do not try, you obviously don't care about Jesus or have faith in him.

Works are a sign of your faith but they do not earn you anything. You cannot earn what is already freely given. You can only accept that gift or reject it.

 

What is freely given is my question. It's grace from being left in the ground forever. In other words, you can't have one without the other. That's what James is referring to. So, the "good" works you do absolutely earn you something. Eternal life in Heaven. If you say you have faith, but deny the ordinances that are required, such as baptism, there is no Eternal Life in Heaven. There's still life in Heaven, but at a lower degree as Paul points out. There are 3 degrees or levels in Heaven we will be judged to be placed in. I want to be in the 3rd Heaven where Paul was. It's the Celestial Glory as written in 1st Corinthians chapter 15. There are 2 other levels or degrees mentioned in that chapter.

With that said, I had an experience yesterday with a member of the Church I am baptized in. He is what we would call an active participating member doing all sorts of good works and honoring his Priesthood. But, he said that only recently, he has developed a testimony that Jesus Christ actually exists and is real. So, he had faith to do the works that he has been asked to by his Church leaders. But, not faith that Christ is real. So, I would say in that case, he lacked the faith and was banking on his works mostly. Recently, he has gained that testimony by way of the Holy Ghost that Jesus lives and is very real. And, that the atonement and resurrection are real and we truly receive forgiveness through our repentance process and will be reunited with our physical and spiritual bodies through the resurrection. He now is doing the works but because of his faith and his faith is no longer dead as well as his works.

 

The point of my tongue-in-cheek question is that I can also use your definition of "sacred not secret" when you describe knowledge obtained through earning it via the performance of certain tasks. Here is a less sexually explicit example: If you run an obstacle course of my choosing, I'll let you glance at the pages of my diary. That makes my diary "sacred not secret" Otherwise all you are saying is: If Yahweh denies you information it's sacred, but if a human denies you information it's a secret.

And if you insist on "sacred not secret" I assume you approve of those who leave the church revealing to people outside the church all the details of the ordinances and even those who bring hidden cameras into the temple. After all, they are giving the information you are unable to so you can keep up the "sacred not secret" argument.

 

And, if you said I can't look at your map until I join your team, you can say it's sacred and not secret as well. I just have to earn the right and pay you a fee to join your team. You argument has no merit. Let me point out another analogy. Suppose you had something happen to you in the past in which you refuse to share with others because of the personal nature of the event. Is it a secret or do you hold it sacred or personally very important. See, I could tell you what goes on and be very specific. But, I hold the endowments I receive very personal and a personal covenant between me and my God. That is what sacred is, not secret. Nothing that goes on in the Temple will hurt you or anyone else. In the Book of Mormon, the evil doers acts upon other people that either injured them, enslaved them or killed them are called "secret combinations." There were signs and tokens they used to hurt other people. Those things were not sacred or personal.

 

To the sentence in bold: Why not? I'm just using your definition of sacred in other contexts.

Now you are moving the goalposts for defining sacred.

First I assert that if I'm not allowed to know something, it's a secret. Then with your religious gobbledygook, you basically stated that knowledge conditional to tasks performed and conditions met is sacred knowledge.

Then I name scenarios where I can declare something to be sacred, and you set up more conditions in order for something to be sacred. Basically you are saying only God can declare things to be sacred, which is a distinction without a difference from "If God denies information it's sacred, but if humans deny information, it's secret"

It does not matter if something is deeply profound or personal. What I divulge to a shrink (mental professional) is confidential and that is a secret. What I specifically do with my partner in a bedroom is a secret. Either thing I suppose CAN be called sacred, but there are no loops you can jump through to obtain information on the details therefore it fails your definition of what is sacred.

Also what I hypothetically do in the bedroom with any consenting adult and what I definitely do by myself in the bedroom does not hurt anyone outside either, yet church institutions make it their business to enter the bedroom and violate what could be called "sacred" but I with 100% honesty say is my rightful secret.

You also fail to see the irony when you point out paying to be part of a team. You still have to pay full tithes to enter the temple.

 

Why do you not practice what you preach. Your entire response after the abovewas to quote the writings of men.

Its why many do not take you seriously. You spit back passages of the New Testament and demand your listeners read these writings written by men, literally and not as parables. You yourself clearly illustrate you do not know the difference between literal and figurative concepts written by men to explain their views. You assume these ghost writers are synonomous with the God you claim you represent.

No I do not accept the HUMANS you read and quote from to be "God". No I do not use simplistic concepts that are rigid, allow no difference in interpretation and are recited as absolute formulas of perfect God conscience.

My God would not talk let alone be understood by you or any human who claims to speak for "God". My God is an abstract concept of alpha and omega, begining and end being one and the same, nothing and everything coming from the same origin and existing simultaneously and serving as an energy source from which oher energy was able to be sent out to create its own alpha-omega paradox in an infinite chain of energy transfer.

My God can not be explained in words. There is a hint of it enough to try grasp how impossible it is to grasp in studying fractal theory.

All you demonstrate is you recite scripts and formulas from OTHER humans which you assume are the only way one can conceive a concept beyond human comprehension.

To me your words show bigotry, intolerance, rudeness, arrogance and a need to try destroy and extinguish any thought that you do not approve of.

Here let me explain what I mean by a parable. A man came on my lawn. He said, "Death..I will tell you how to crap and where to crap". I responded, "Thanks let me explain how I can use my water hose to give you an enema if you do not get off my lawn."

Thank you. God bless.

 

God can speak to your heart, but you must recognize if it is from love to recognize if it of God.

What about love is intolerant?

 

I was not talking about love. I was talking about your words . Please do not presume you can or should tell me who or what God is or love is. Ask. I also agree with your first sentence. you
Love can be a very complex emotion and yes trigger intolerance. In some people's concept or definition of God's live it is without limit and forgives all.

In my world the concept of God did not interfere with the choices you made, it only bared witness to them and the consequences of your choices you yourself made create your destiny and whether you will have to resolve conflicts caused by bad choices you made before you can continue to evolve.

That is only my opinion. I believe I am ultimately responsible for the good and bad of any decision I make and simply asking Jesus or God to forgive me does not remove me from the need to go back and undo the harm I may have done if it causes an imbalance between good and evil, positive and negative.

 

I don't understand the disconnect in the assorted non believers. They don't believe in Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ or his Gospel of salvation. But they live their lives much in accordance with that which he taught. They even preach his doctrines separate from his accreditation as if it were common and secular, and cannot hear his voice in their own exhortations. They may in the privacy of reflection resolve to forgive another's trespass, or apologize themselves for hurting someone and not recognize the spirit of God or Jesus Gospel in their doings. They may let someone out in traffic, or hold a door open for another, or do an unseen goodness for no other reason than for the sake of doing good. Yet they don't recollect Jesus counsel to store our treasures in heaven, or perceive the ties to their every good act to Jesus's doctrines and the practice of true religion. They forget his counsel that as ye have done unto the least of these ye have done unto me. With the light of Christ in the counsel of conscience they heave and shoulder into their lives his burden, and say there is no God. But their hearts and actions say otherwise. They love him and they know it. He is the whole of the best that they are. But for some reason they are ashamed to be known by the worlds measure. Perhaps there is wisdom in it or a prudence yet revealed. We are all on heavens table, our unfitness sanctified by his mercy

 

Of course not.To start with people who do not necessarily think like you are not disconnected. They were never connected, You can't be disconnected unless you were first connected.

Next people are not connected to you because you choose that. You choose to use your beliefs as to Jesus to blind you to anyone being able to be real and not believe some or all of the things you do. To you all values come through Jesus so when you read others words and you see similiarity to beliefs you believe Jesus has, you assume we disconnected from Jesus.

Excuse me that is just silly. I am not disconnected, unconnected to Jesus. I do not deny him. accept him or anything else. Jesus is your creation and you use him in a certain way. Your way is your world. There are worlds other than yours. My God man, do you believe there can be no life forms that have divine essence unless they come from your beliefs?

Your beliefs. That is what your belief in Jesus is. You feel Jesus is universal. What if there are alternative universes or possibilities and beliefs that do not require your concept of Jesus?

What if Jesus is not what you think he is? What if Jesus is an abstract term referring to the ability in every human to save the world and that we are all sons or daughters of God just like Jesus and he never said he was the only one but we are all his brothers and sisters and all humans are each a Jesus?

What if your absolute beliefs of Jesus may not be what he taught?

How does someone like Jesus who supposedly taught you to love everyone and tolerate everyone create for you a tool to deny everyone except those who think like you? Is that what you think he said?

I don't disagree or agree, hate or love, your Jesus. If Jesus is as you say, I would have no problems but if he tried to tell me I must obey him I would have a problem. I believe human beings have free will. I believe what you believe is God did not create us so that God or Jesus would intervene on our free will and prevent it and tell us how to think.

I believe your Jesus is a parable, a story to try help explain to you the divine essence of life is in all forms of life and Jesus was created to make that abstract concept easier for you to understand not use it as a tool to label others and assume what they think.

You keep your strong beliefs. I am no danger to them. I don't challenge them. Yes I probably have many if not all beliefs very similiar to the ones you believe Jesus taught you. In my world I do not connect to anything through him. I am what I am and when I connect I do it through no one but me. If you need Jesus to connect to God or others please you have my respect but don't assume I have to or it makes me a non believer. I believe in many things. I believe in many possibilities. I just define things differently than you.

Thank you.

 

No, Injeun. That is just you forcing what you are seeing them do into your own religious context. Just as a Hindu or Buddhist may do with your behavior. You are a good person and you follow the path of the Buddha but you don't acknowledge or realize it..... Etc.

 

Welcome to life.

I had to put a gun to my head and try to pull the trigger before I could walk away. They terrorize little children with tales of eternal torture and that is very hard to shake. I think it should be a crime.

One day you will look back and religion will seem primitive and bizarre. You will wonder how you ever fell for this crap.

 

Injeun lol thanks for the like. Its not missed on me. I have a big smile on my face. Ok man. You showed me you practice what you preach. Respect and a deep belly laugh. Thank you for not taking the post as a lecture. Ah I read it back. I did not mean to patronize you I just meant to talk. It was rude. It assumed. I must confess I am used to people who use Jesus as a weapon not a healing element to connect. In one small action you said heck of a lot. Lesson learned from you or should I say thou.

 

To the sentence in bold: Why not? I'm just using your definition of sacred in other contexts.
Now you are moving the goalposts for defining sacred. First I assert that if I'm not allowed to know something, it's a secret. Then with your religious gobbledygook, you basically stated that knowledge conditional to tasks performed and conditions met is sacred knowledge. Then I name scenarios where I can declare something to be sacred, and you set up more conditions in order for something to be sacred. Basically you are saying only God can declare things to be sacred, which is a distinction without a difference from "If God denies information it's sacred, but if humans deny information, it's secret" It does not matter if something is deeply profound or personal. What I divulge to a shrink (mental professional) is confidential and that is a secret. What I specifically do with my partner in a bedroom is a secret. Either thing I suppose CAN be called sacred, but there are no loops you can jump through to obtain information on the details therefore it fails your definition of what is sacred.
Also what I hypothetically do in the bedroom with any consenting adult and what I definitely do by myself in the bedroom does not hurt anyone outside either, yet church institutions make it their business to enter the bedroom and violate what could be called "sacred" but I with 100% honesty say is my rightful secret.
You also fail to see the irony when you point out paying to be part of a team. You still have to pay full tithes to enter the temple.[/QUOTE]

Cougarbear: Basically, you don't have a clue what "sacred" means. It's something that is "holy." That requires God in the definition. I tried to use an analogy but you continue to resist simple logic and reasoning. The covenants I make in the Temple not to divulge are by definition, sacred. Not secret. It's between me and the Lord. That is sacred. Why? Because you too can make those same covenants and know what takes place in the Temple. It's also not secret because of covenant breakers who have divulged their holy covenants. Again, it's sacred, not secret.
As for what takes place in the bedroom with your spouse (heterosexual sex), it is sacred if you have covenanted with your spouse and God to be holy. Certainly not secret because all holy marriages know what take place. As for unholy unions, those are secret as they destroy people's possibility for Eternal Life.

 

Cougarbear: Basically, you don't have a clue what "sacred" means. It's something that is "holy." That requires God in the definition. I tried to use an analogy but you continue to resist simple logic and reasoning. The covenants I make in the Temple not to divulge are by definition, sacred. Not secret. It's between me and the Lord. That is sacred. Why? Because you too can make those same covenants and know what takes place in the Temple. It's also not secret because of covenant breakers who have divulged their holy covenants. Again, it's sacred, not secret.
As for what takes place in the bedroom with your spouse (heterosexual sex), it is sacred if you have covenanted with your spouse and God to be holy. Certainly not secret because all holy marriages know what take place. As for unholy unions, those are secret as they destroy people's possibility for Eternal Life.[/QUOTE]

Look in the mirror. Is that the God you are speaking of? From where I sit its just anothe preacher struggling with his own unresolved sexual urges.