Jesus Can Not Be Defeated.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by JAG*, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Can Not Be Defeated.
    By JAG
    September 16, 2021

    Because God can NOT be defeated and Jesus is God.

    Jesus is the Word and "In the beginning was the Word
    and . . . the Word was God" {John 1:1} . . .

    . . . and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and He can not
    be defeated by Sin, Satan, and Satan's sad selfish self-seeking sapiens.

    Would you please seize . . . upon this mighty truth:

    Jesus is NOW the most powerful Person in the Universe. John 13:3
    John 3:35 John 5:22 Col. 2:9-10 Matt. 28:18 1 Cor. 15:24-25

    And He was there when . . .

    The Holy Trinity {Father, Son, Holy Spirit} created Andromeda, a galaxy
    41,631,870 miles in diameter {67 kiloparsecs} which is only one of a few
    hundred billion galaxies in the Universe ~ by the way Andromeda has an
    estimated one trillion stars.

    Speaking of stars . . .

    Astronomers estimate there are between 30 to 70 billion trillion stars in the
    Universe. The Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit created it all.

    So? So They are powerful. They can not be defeated.

    "Now wait just a minute", objected Frail Christian Pessimist, "the Father, the Lord
    Jesus, and the Holy Spirit lose the War For The World. They fail to Christianize
    the world, and defeat evil, before Jesus returns."

    Then out spake Braveheart the man of God, "So, Frail, you teach that Jesus and
    His Great Commission fails?"

    "Yes", replied Frail Christian Pessimist, "Jesus' command to His Christian Church
    to go and make disciples of all nations will fail."

    "But consider this.", replied Braveheart the man of God, "When Jesus commanded
    His Christian Church to carry out His Great Commission, He said 'All authority in
    heaven and on earth has been given to me. THEREFORE go and make disciples
    of all nations' and He added 'surely I am with you always to the very end of the age'"

    "Where in the Bible does Jesus say all that?", asked Frail Christian Pessimist.

    ""Matthew 28:16-20", replied Braveheart the man of God.

    "Moreover", continued Braveheart the man of God, "Jesus' death on The Cross
    and His Resurrection, has NOW defeated all His Enemies, and Sin, and Satan
    and . . .

    . . . Jesus NOW sits at the right hand of the Father God Almighty, so Jesus NOW
    has ALL power to win the War For The World.

    "I base my beliefs about the future on what the newspapers say", replied Frail
    Christian Pessimist, "and the news headlines say the world is growing more and
    more evil all the time."

    "So Evil, not Jesus, wins the War For The World?", asked Braveheart the man of God.

    "Yes, that's exactly right. You are correct", replied Frail Christian Pessimist.

    "Are you saying that Jesus is a Loser?", asked Braveheart the man of God.

    "I fear the worst", replied Frail Christian Pessimist.

    {A wise man once asked:
    Can we trust newspapers and news headlines to tell us the truth? Do you, reader,
    trust newspapers to tell you the truth?}

    "By the way I'm curious, what are your favorite news sources?", asked Braveheart the
    man of God.

    "I read the news headlines every day on the Internet", replied Frail Christian Pessimist,
    "and I listen to the cable news networks a lot. I particularly like Fox News."

    "But the Bible is our source", replied Braveheart the man of God, "and all Scripture is given
    by inspiration of God {2 Timothy 3:16-20} . . .

    . . . and we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us . . .

    . . . this means . . .

    . . . we can successfully carry out our Lord Jesus' Great Commission command, to go and
    make disciples of all nations."

    "No! We can not do that", replied Frail Christian Pessimist. "Evil is more powerful than Good, and the Good loses the War For The World. I'm not giving up my newspapers."

    Elsewhere on the battlefield . . .

    Lieutenant Pale Grasshopper: "Look General, our Christian Army is taking heavy losses
    everywhere along our front, on both our flanks, and in our center. We're losing the battle,
    sir, and we must speedily retreat right now, General."

    General John Strongfaith: "Stand firm. Stay calm. Be strong. Get a hold of yourself
    Lieutenant Grasshopper. Have faith in God. Hold on. Take courage. Our heavy casualties
    only serve to make our army battle-hardened which makes us stronger. We know how this
    war ends. We win it. This Christian Army gradually destroys all it's enemies {1 Cor. 15:24-25}.
    Therefore we fight it on out to the end. So advance the entire line forward right now, and do it with a glad heart."

    Back to Braveheart . . .

    Braveheart the man of God speaks:

    "There is world-changing power in The Blood of The Cross.

    There is world-changing power in Jesus' Resurrection.

    The Bible says Jesus 'was declared the Son Of God WITH POWER by the Resurrection from the dead' {Philippians 2:8-9} . . .

    . . . and shortly after His Resurrection, Jesus boldly proclaimed that 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth' {Matthew 28:18}

    So?

    So Jesus commanded His evangelizing Great Commission SOON AFTER His Resurrection. Why is this important? Because of the huge enormous power of His Resurrection to change the world.

    We have Victory in Jesus! Jesus NOW has the power to empower His Christian Church to go and make disciples of all nations."

    "Evil is strong and the Christian Church will fail to successfully carry out Jesus' Great Commission", replied Frail Christian Pessimist.

    Braveheart the man of God, in kindness and with compassion now said to Frail Christian Pessimist:

    "Frail, I leave you with these Christian victory thoughts: There is no power on this earth that can defeat the power of The Cross and the power of Jesus' Resurrection . . .

    . . . that now empowers Jesus' Christian Church to successfully carry out His Great Commission to go and make disciples of all nations . . .

    . . . therefore the Lord Jesus will gradually win the War For The World.

    "The newspapers paint a different picture", replied Frail Christian Pessimist, "and I have faith in the news."

    []

    Agree?
    Disagree?
    Thoughts?


    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I totally agree with the idea that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in His resurrected form cannot be defeated.

    His meeting with so many people who report meeting him during a near death experience or other type of visit that causes an Atheist to become a Christian or inspired a Muslim to begin preaching is powerful evidence that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus absolutely cannot be defeated.


     
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  3. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, since nothing exists except god, I think he’ll be ok.
     
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  4. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your comments. You made some very good points.

    Best Regards.

    JAG

    ``
     
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  5. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your comment.

    Best.

    JAG

    ``
     
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  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Jesus saves

    But Esposito scores on the rebound
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Jesus can not be defeated .. what was the purpose of going through the Testing ?

    Regardless - Jesus always refers to "The Father" - "The Most High" as someone other than himself. - we are not told whether or not the Most high can defeat Jesus ..

    The early church fathers debated the nature of Christs Divinity - believed Jesus was subordinate to the Father - Jesus himself seems to share this belief - so at least one person thought that someone was more powerful than Jesus.
     
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  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Never fails to AMUSE me that theists NEED that type of puerile pablum in order to justify their beliefs.

    If there are "70 billion trillion stars in the Universe" then WHY is your IMAGINARY deity INCAPABLE of IMPOSING his WILL on an insignificant SPEC of dust the size of our planet?

    Omnipotence is a LOGICAL fallacy.

    So is the OP for that matter.

    Sad!

    :roflol:
     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because I studied near death experience accounts so obsessively since 1990 of course I ran into the NDE of Pentecostal Theologian Dr. Kevin Zadai who already had a Theology Degree, (actually even his doctorate), before his brush with death in 1992.

    In chapter six of his free course entitled "Heavenly Visitation" Dr. Zadai goes into detail on Messiah Yeshua - Jesus descending into the lowest place in hell for three days from the time of his death until his resurrection.

    I listened to that account over and over and over again over this past year or so since I began taking his online courses.

    Demons ridiculed Messiah Yeshua -Jesus and told Him that He should have accepted the offer from Satan to rule the world that we read about in Matthew chapter four......
    but on the third day when He was resurrected the blast of energy actually disfigured the demons and devils who had gathered for a planned spectacle for the third day.......
    but their plans were interrupted by the resurrection and glorification of the body of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.

    I still find it moving that Dr. Zadai reported that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus had tears in his eyes......
    and His voice showed that He was deeply emotion as He told Dr. Zadai about what happened during those three days.

    I am sure that I listened to chapter six over and over again four or five times already.....
    Something that I really like about this course is that I can begin it anywhere I wish and each lesson will play in succession which comes in really handy on a day like today.... (Yom Kippur according to the Karaite Jewish method of observance), because when I go without both food and water I like to just lay in bed and listen to something like this.....

    I think that I will shortly begin this amazing near death experience account again in about an hour or so.... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus going down into hell itself is powerful evidence to me that He will never quit.... He will be working on our salvation for infinite time in the future...... and I see the branching of TIME itself in Ezekiel chapter thirty seven.... Revelation chapter twenty... Romans nine, ten and eleven.... .and in other places as well.....

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rom/11/1/s_1057001

    Personally..... I believe that finally by the time that Paul wrote Romans... he is by that time willing to explain some of what he considered "unlawful to be uttered" at the time that he wrote 2 Corinthians 12.....

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2co/12/1/s_1090001

    If you would like to listen to that mind blowing chapter six by near death experiencer Kevin Zadai it is here and it is free of charge ....
    https://www.warriornotesschool.com/
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Did he not say "I and the Father are one"?
     
  11. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    As a devout Jew it would have been BLASPHEMY punishable by DEATH for Jesus to have said that.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps - as per the writings of the Author of John - 100-120 AD. This author could mean many things by this statement and given he is speaking from the "Logos" perspective - of course Jesus is one with the Father in purpose .. his purpose .. which was to deliver "the word" .. and he was the vessel of God's word - and at the same time mediator between man and God.

    Nothing confusing about this statement from the Logos Perspective .. no one confused during the time of writing - as everyone knew well the logos concept which was part of standard religious belief -- a conduit between man and God.

    No one at the time had the idea in their head that Jesus and the Father were one in the same .. and when this idea did come up around 100 years later ~200AD- it was deemed heretical - another 100 years after that for Constantine to try to settle the ongoing squabble over the nature of Christs divinity .. by just declaring him "Homoousios"

    Took another 400 years after that for the Constantine crowd to "kind of" win the dogma war. This had little to do with what the author meant.

    So that one passage is highly interpretive .. and there was a whole lot of confusion that came after which muddies the waters for someone in this day trying to make sense of the words.

    Further - we do not have alot of context to go on but will get to that in a moment.

    First - this highly interpretive passage - stands against a backdrop of Jesus repeating over and over again that the Father is someone other than himelf - knows things Jesus does not know - is separate from Jesus - not always of the same mind - Jesus will was not to go through with the plan .. but stated that he would do what ever his Father's will was. Jesus later rebukes his God for making him go through with the plan - perhaps thinking God would intervene at some point.

    You can trot out hundreds of passages - with depth of context - not just one random phrase - where Jesus points to the father as someone other than himself - "Including" - in this very chapter - John 10.

    So the passage starts out - Jesus describing how he is the gate-keeper - a narrative that parallels Matt 25 - sheep and goats parable where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.
    Jesus and the Father are one in purpose .. so when you hear the voice of Jesus - you are hearing God's voice - as Jesus is the Logos - the Son of God.

    Jesus here does not claim to be the son of God - but he claims to be "the Logos" - a vessel of God's word - emmissary between man and God.
    Jesus here downplays the idea of being God's son saying that we are all Gods Children .... but again stresses "the word" and the works of the Father which Jesus is engaged in.

    The scripture that comes from God is in Jesus. In no way does this mean that Jesus "IS" God.

    Jesus recieves commands from the Father - and carries them out.

    So you have a bunch of times .. just in this passage where Jesus is clearly referring to the Father as someone other than himself .. someone to which he is subordinate ... including in the verse where the "I and the Father are One" statement is made.

    Is the Father who has Given Jesus his power and authority and they are one in purpose - Jesus being the vessel of God's word - "The Logos" the conduit between man and God's word.

    No one at the time took this to mean Jesus was God - including the author. If we go to Mark/Matt - written well prior to John - "The Father" is always depicted as 1) Greater than Jesus 2) distinct from Jesus
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And indeed that is what his punishment was - but, Jesus does not actually claim to be "Son of God" except in the way that we are all children of God - in this particular passage.
     
  14. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, thank you for writing that up for me, I appreciate you taking
    the time to do that.

    I have no problem with NDE.
    In fact I am inclined to believe that some of them are the real thing.
    For example I watched this film . . .
    [​IMG]

    . . . about Colton Burpo's NDE and it seemed
    very credible to me.

    However, I have some serious reservations about the
    potential harm that can come from the NDE thingy.

    I mean for example, let us say "John" tells us he went
    to heaven and personally talked with Jesus, who told
    him to tell Dennis Tate to sell everything he owns in
    this world and give the money to The Salvation Army.

    John says that Jesus told him to tell you, that He Jesus,
    wants you to live as a homeless person for the rest of
    your life to "test your faith."

    The John produces some evidences that he really did
    have a NDE, and John presents that evidence to you,
    and then asks when will you sell everything you own
    and give the money to The Salvation Army?

    See what I mean, Dennis?

    Best Regards,

    JAG

    PS
    I'd bet you will disregard the evidences that John presents
    to you on his NDE, right?

    []


    ``
     
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  15. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the “rules” of spirituality are completely different for each individual. One person should not try to follow exactly what another has learned in his own experiences. Just because one person finds that his path to happiness/enlightenment tells him he should be a homeless hermit, that does not mean that anybody else should follow that example. Every one of us is on a different journey, and at different stages. What one soul is here to learn, another soul may not yet be ready for, as they have other lessons that need to be learned first. I think that is one of the reasons why organized religion can be harmful. They try to have a one size fits all approach to spirituality, when it really needs to be done completely independently. We can and should take inspiration from others, as our spiritual path leads us to visit others when we are ready for what they have to say, but a set doctrine that all should follow is just going to slow our progress, if not be completely detrimental to our spiritual development.
    So, basically, anything learned in a NDE is probably extremely personal, and anyone examining them should take that into account. Of course, our own path may have lead us to read about a particular NDE because there is information there that we need to see. I think that best advice is to meditate heavily on everything, and listen to what your higher self has to say on each matter. Our own intuition/higher self is the ultimate guide we have in this life.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, people that say Jesus was killed for our sins and then was stuck in his dead body for 3 days don't get that

    all powerful God's can't be killed.... and they would not be stuck in a dead body for 3 days
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Essentially claiming to be "one with god" is only semantically different to where he inferred himself to be the son of god in Luke and Mark if I recall correctly.

    https://bible.org/question/does-jesus-fact-say-he-god’s-son-not-just-infer-it
     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These questions sound like really useful thoughts to me.

    Jesus stated emphatically that He Himself did not know the specific day and hour of His Second Coming..... but instead that the timing for that was entirely in the hands of The Father who He stated was doing all the miracles...... He was not.

    My understanding of the Why of the testing and temptation in the wilderness was that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus was in the place of our grandfather Adam..... four metaphorical days after the creation of Adam and Eve and after the fall of Adam and Eve and I believe that He was taking back rulership over the earth from Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan who has been doing really offensive psychological experiments on all of us.

    I liked what Rick Joyner was shown in a visionary dream in 1994 about that.

     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes...... if Messiah Yeshua - Jesus wanted me to do something that extreme I would want a dream or vision at least...... and my belief is that people can still be deceived even after having a near death experience or similar experience. They are still human... and still flawed... and still subject to Satan deceiving them.

    You are absolutely correct about the Colton Burpo NDE... it is exceptional... and years later he is still trying his best to assist people to learn the basics of what the Bible teaches.




    "Heaven Is For Real" Interview with Todd and Colton Burpo
    1,878,230 views
    Jun 22, 2015
     
  20. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Josh
    Thanks for your comment. You made interesting points.
    True, we're all different.
    Nonetheless, there is a principle embedded within the NDE thingy,
    that is dangerous ~ and that principle is this: Mere human beings
    who are fallen and sinful and corrupted and THEREFORE easily
    mislead and easily befuddled "visit" heaven, talk to God or Jesus
    and then come back and tell you what God said. And of course if
    God ACTUALLY told them what THEY say God told them, then
    that message would have the same authority as any other Bible
    verse where God has spoken. As for me personally, I will NOT
    put any (zero) faith in what mere men tell me that God told them.

    I do put faith in what Christ's apostles tell me in the Bible. They got
    their authority directly from Christ himself. As for Colton Burpo
    and Zadar, I put zero faith in what they claim that God told them
    to tell me.

    2 timothy 3:16-20 says that the Bible is inspired by God.

    What for example Burpo and Zadar say is merely what Burpo and Zadar
    say ~ and nothing more than that.

    Best

    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes .. I know - We can see Jesus infers such as other places .. but in this passage in particular he is not which is important .. not because Jesus downplays the son of God claims .. but because this passage is used as justification for the Trinity .. which is a claim not that Jesus is the Son of God .. but that Jesus "IS" God.

    So the post is not really about whether Jesus claims to be the Son of God .. it is about dismission of the nonsense claim from this passage .. one where Jesus downplays even the "Son of God" title .. claiming to be one of God's Children - that Jesus is claiming "TO BE the Father"
     
  22. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see what you are saying. I am not a Christian, so I guess I see things differently. I definitely see a difference between good and evil, but I don’t necessarily see sin as a bad thing. It’s a little tricky to explain. We NEED “sin” in order for there to be experience. There has to be darkness in order for their yo be light. You need to experience sin in order to experience goodness. In some lifetimes we are Hitler, and in other lifetimes we are the persecuted Jews. Our souls must learn the lessons of both in order to grow. But evil cannot last, and in the end all souls return to goodness. I know it sounds off, and would really require a much longer discussion to really explain. I’m not at all saying evil is justified or anything like that, but the contrast must exist, if existence is to mean anything. If that makes any sense. In the end, evil must and will be overcome as we all return to god.
     
  23. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Josh you make some points that have some hope in them. You sound like a seeker.
    Have you ever read the gospel of John? If not, give it a go. I think you'll find a lot
    of hope-ideas in John's gospel. Read it in a modern translation, maybe the NIV.
    You can read all of John online (NIV ~ New International Version)
    Here is the first chapter:
    John 1 NIV - The Word Became Flesh - In the - Bible Gateway

    Best

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting that you would start with John - but if you do start with John -- you need to tell them what the Logos is/means. Mistranslated as "Word" or "The Word" in Modern Translations. Without that knowledge -- John will not make sense.

    So the Logos is the emissary between man and God .. the conduit through which Gods word is transmitted .. in this respect Jesus was the embodyment of God word .. not just any old word .. The Truth, The Way , the Light....

    Given the posters sentiments however, the recognition of light and dark .. and the forces of both .. I would start with Genesis .. in particular the Garden of Eden Story .. an adaptation of a much earlier tradiction - in which it is more Chaos vs Order rather than "Good vs Evil"

    The Serpent in the Story is the Goddess Tiamat -- Great God of the primordial Sea - Serpent/Dragon - God of Chaos - of whom which the ancient Gods battled... The "US" in the creation of man story.... who made humans unto their own image "Like US"

    Unfortunately the "US" part of the equation is mostly wiped out of modern translations - however - a few remnents still remain - but it is really interesting to look at certain OT passages from very old texts 300-100 BC
     
  25. Basset Hound

    Basset Hound Active Member

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    And the Wehrmacht cannot be defeated. How do we know? The Fuhrer tells us so.
     

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