Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ChemEngineer, Dec 5, 2019.
Life is nasty, brutish and short, and so are feminists. - Thomas Hobbes, sort of
Life is a rough affair, from start to finish, all things considered.
This probably belongs in the funny/meme sub-forum.
Which brings us to one of my joke about manshaming tactics:
Accusation of criminality -- the feminist making such an accusation is a lawyer.
Accusation of insanity -- the feminist making such an accusation is a psychologist/psychiatrist.
Accusation of being uneducated -- the feminist making such an accusation is a teacher.
Accusation of inceldom -- no comment.
The joke is hilarious. It's just in the wrong subforum.
Your confusing feminists with nazi feminists
Meh, if you really want to make fun of a feminist, point out the flaws in their arguments. Especially when it comes to trans people. TERFs are hilarious.
Like how men treat men? All I did was respond as 'one of the guys'. If you have a problem, then it's not with me or my feminism. It's the way men talk to each other.
On light note: My joke about expressed in the above message was misunderstood.
On serious note:
1) I have yet to meet a feminist that did not buy into sexist stereotypes about men.
2) If feminism is about Gender Equality, count me in. Men as a class have a lot to gain from Gender Equality. I have protested against the ways in which men are discriminated since 1996. Men are discriminated in Divorce; male offenders get 63% long penalty for the same offense; male victims of DV are more likely to be arrested then helped; men accused of Sexual Misconduct are presumed guilty. It is my ethical duty as a man to educate as many people -- mostly men as I can on these issues.
What sexist stereotypes would those be?
Honey, I'm trans. Don't even try to lecture me about gender equality if this is how it's going to be framed. Now even if we were going to do that, look at your stats and tell me what do they say about men? More specifically, what behavior should men do to be men? Now compare that to what I said as 'one of the guys'.
How so? I'm not sure what you're saying.
Thank you for sharing. I do not know anything about Transgender issues, so I can not comment. Most Cis-female feminists (at least on Twitter) do express sexist stereotypes about men. Most men are neither rapists nor abusers.
For most TERFs, hatred of men is the main driving force.
I present the facts for anyone -- including any third party who is willing to read.
It is baffling. When women demand you treat them equally, they complain that you did... Somehow they don't actually want to be treated equally. There seems to be an expectation of deference and supplication that belies their protestations of the desire for equality...
It's no problem, I'm pretty open to being trans on PF. Not so much IRL. You're not wrong to assume there's a certain sense of elitism among cis feminists. I tend to think this is because they have read the literature and already resolved these kinds of discussions, kinda like how doctors of social science tend to act in general. When most people aren't even introduced to these concepts, it comes across as elitist. Modern day feminists have to take into account LGBT people because they're the glaring counter example to anything we say about men and women. I haven't met any that can't, or don't do that save TERFs. And TERFs are just wrong on lots of accounts. There's a reason TERFs make political alliances with sexist positions. They overlap very well together. So if you haven't experienced any modern day feminists, then I hate to say it but maybe that's why your position is what it is.
How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?
SEXIST ! ! !
It is amazing how much you can do for the world when you look around.
1. Pick up litter on sidewalks, streets, parks and shopping centers.
2. Especially look for nails and screws when crossing streets. There are lots of them and one person, picking up a nail or screw, could have saved Denise Huber's life. Think about that.
3. See a woman stranded on the side of the freeway, alone? Stop and help her. Had one decent man stopped to help Denise Huber that night with her flat tire, she would be alive today. But not one had the decency. I can't tell you how many flat tires I have changed for women, and a few for men. One Asian fellow had no idea how to use his car jack, nor how to properly break lug nuts.
4. See a dead animal in the road? You could call it in. Few people do. Even fewer stop and pick it up, with gloves or plastic bags. I do.
5. See a street light burning in daylight or dark at night? Call the utility.
6. See something in your city in need of repair? A pothole? Sidewalk tripping hazard? Broken sign? Call it in. You learn something when you do something. So does the city. My cell phone directory is full of city department phones and emails. The squeaky wheel gets.... heard.
7. Greet a stranger in a store, any store. "Hey miss, fill some more shopping bags. Your husband has the money!"
Always gets a laugh.
7. Try to guess where a foreign born stranger comes from. Iranians are easy. So are Filipinos. We sat at Costco near three coworkers were having lunch. Facing me on the left, I spoke to the first one and said, "You're from Teheran aren't you?"
Guy across from me gives me a fist bump. "Where am I from?" That's easy. (Huge man, distinctive hair) Sow- moa. Fist bump.
Third employee on my right. "Where am I from?"
Wow, that's tough. "I'll give you a hint, the Middle East." I knew that.
Egypt. Fist bump. Three for three.
It is fun to have fun but you have to know how. - The Cat in the Hat
Feminism is and has always been all one thing, no "waves" no sects, ONE undifferentiated thing from the start, all Marxist social destabilization emanating from 100% Marxist academics whole cloth in the late 1950s and 60s. Not 99%, 100% Cultural Marxist Academics. The "waves" and "sects" were fabricated when Marxism became decidedly unfashionable and bad for fundraising during the Cold War. But feminism has ALWAYS been "wear a dress and claim to be the -good- -equality- kind of feminist... until the checks are signed" then right back to the Mao Hats, Che shirts and castration parties. Fooled millions for decades, no longer. This is why it has become so unpopular, and why only a small minority of net age women in the U.S. want their daughters identifying as "feminists."
DOA, took WAY too long, will probably have quite a screechy, annoying death rattle over the next ten years though.
Has -nada- to do with "equality for women" or the fabricated "fight for women's rights," but Marxian/Maoist/Leninist political tactics adopted to a gullible voting bloc when the "blue collar comrade" didn't work out well for Communists in the U.S. Plan B was women, and C was blacks. Both B and C worked swimmingly... but not for Communists...for the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer MSM Complex that ironically coopted Marxian techniques for its very capitalist fiat capitalism, just have to keep pumping out the unlawful discrimination in women's and blacks' favor and all the free stuff one gets in this country for having a vagina or being part brown.
Betty Friedan, writer of "The Feminine Mystique," the seminal first important feminist tract, also a proven fabricated work of fiction, was a career propagandist for the U.S. Communist Party. Didn't come out until just a few years ago due to being carefully hidden for decades, but it's a fact.
Mary Wollenstonecraft is credited with the finding of Liberal Feminism in the late 1700's. Even then, Marxist feminists such as Emma Goldman come from the late 1800's, not 1950's.
Didn't happen, pure backwards historical revisionism to keep the funds and tuition checks coming into fledgling Marxian indoc...erm "women's studies" departments while the indoctrination continued. "No Daddy, it's not Communists, it goes back over 200 years to English Lit! just sign my tuition check please!" It was crafty to go back and create a nonexistent history of primordial feminism from disparate, assorted women's movements of the distant past, but it was the Cold War, and to survive, that's -exactly- what the 100% MARXIST academic feminists did.
Shelley would NEVER EVER have espoused the same ideals as the -real- Marxian feminists originating wholly from the late 1950s. Not even remotely close.
Even more importantly, the upper middle, very RW CHRISTIAN matrons of the various Suffragette Movements would never in a jillion years have supported actual feminism. You see, another hidden fact is that they wanted the vote not to bring "equality to women," but to enact Prohibition on alcohol and Sexual Temperance laws. Yeah, they'd be all for abortion and sexual promiscuity and bra burning... not.
Want to read the real history of feminism from the woman who founded the first women's shelters in England but had her and her family's lives threatened because she didn't toe the Marxian line? Meet Erin Pizzey:
Have linked the above several times on this forum. Crickets always chirp. This time will likely be no different.
1.You're right. There's no way she was a communist. Communism didn't exist in the 1700's. Was she a feminist? Yes, yes she was. Arguably she was one of the first of the modern era.
2. You're thinking of her daughter.
3. You might be right, I don't know, don't care. She doesn't have to support the 1950's movement, though she in all likelihood would have. All I have to do is say you don't know anything about feminism by citing her and be done with it. Wollenstonecraft argued women have sexual desires, that kinda doesn't fit with what you're saying. As for the suffragette movements, Matilda Joselyn Gage got removed from history because she accused Christianity of holding women back. That also ignores the suffragette movements across the world that range from decolonization to fight for education.
4. What do you want me to say? She's a random person making random claims on the internet, and I have no intention of reading her book. Make a point or don't.
Marxian academics from the late 50s on needed legitimacy to avoid the stigmatism of their Marxism during the Cold War. They went back through history and Frankenstein monster stitched together a fabricated assortment of quotes, half movements, etc. as an imaginary "first wave" of feminist history to hide their demonstrably Marxian roots. That's... what... propagandists... do. It's what Goebbels and the Nazis did with "Aryan mythos" and mysticism and it's what feminists did with the "first wave." Betty Friedan ended up being the most influential among hundreds of key Cultural Marxists who created feminism out of thin air and created a bogus history (she always had nannies, was always active in Communist organization, NEVER EVER a dreary Long Island housewife hopelessly chained to a stove) for it as well:
Boy did it PO the feminists when Horowitz, an unabashed leftist fellow traveler, asked "what's the big deal, why hide the truth?" Because propagandists thrive on lies that the truth evaporates like toilet paper in the rain. See current MSM for hundreds more examples.
They fabricated a history that didn't actually exist, they fabricated a "rallying cry" text that was wholly fictional. That's... what... propagandists...do. That's... what... they... did. Didn't hear about "Betty Goldstein the Communist propaganda agent" in women's studies class? My o My I wonder why not?
Not a book, not a "random person making claims on the internet," how dishonest. Not surprised. Cognitive dissonance can be a real downer, no wonder you are flailing so to escape it.
Not surprised either you won't read the link (takes five minutes) or comment on it, as it is utterly, completely damning of the "conventional wisdom" about what feminism is and its origins, and outlines in the clearest detail -exactly- the singular thing that feminism has always been.
Why in an article about Betty Friedan, does he cite Peter Singer? I don't think you realize this, but that's not a good source. Like it relies on way too much confirmation bias to be taken seriously. I found the article cited by Dr.Horowitz. The author completely misrepresents the article. Dr.Horowitz is praising her, not slandering her. He specifically quotes Friedan as saying- "I was certainly not a feminist then-none of us." and then he shows the change from material interests, to one of psychological trauma inflicted by suburbia. If you put it in this context, then of course the shift from someone active in politics to someone who isn't makes sense. The Feminine Mystique is about the consequences of this shift. That's all Dr.Horowitz is saying.
Honey, I'm not going to comment on it while you say things like how bad it is college is indoctrinating kids into reading. Your argument relies on presenting yourself as educated doesn't make sense unless you somehow come across as an educated "rebel against the establishment". But you can't when your sources look terrible. You have some random book review that is written by the author, and an article from 1998 that fails miserably any attempt at confirming its argument. It would be like if I made a bunch of claims and then only relied on my Uncle Joe to back them up. Sure they might be right, but it doesn't matter. They have to be good sources. You fail that test.
Separate names with a comma.