Judas Iscariot: did his lifestyle lay the groundwork for his religion?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Raffishragabash, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Raffishragabash

    Raffishragabash Newly Registered

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  2. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    How long will you talk and keep saying nothing?
     
  3. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    What aspect of his "Lifestyle" are you talking about? Do you consider there to be differences between Judas' "religion" and that of the other apostles?
     
  4. Raffishragabash

    Raffishragabash Newly Registered

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    John 12:4-6, Mark 14:6-10
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  5. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I am still confused over what the question even is. Do you consider the topic of those verses a lifestyle? And what is it about these verses that have anything to do with his religion, whatever that means in this context?

    Write your argument out, don't just link me somewhere and hope that I figure out whatever angle you've concluded.
     
  6. Raffishragabash

    Raffishragabash Newly Registered

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    For as long as you say, nothing, whenever you keep talking???
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  7. Raffishragabash

    Raffishragabash Newly Registered

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    Well, do we humans today consider our workplace/our job/our occupation as a big part of or a defining part of, our Lifestyle?

    If so, then what do those scripture describe as Judas' job or his occupation, within the group of Apostles?



    I apologize sir, but your (-) energy and its peculiar entrance, has made me conclude that it will not be productive to continue this discussion with you.

    Perhaps at some point you can read those scripture, then see my inquisition's trajectory. That's with respect to all humans who use their religion to set the tone for their daily actions within their livelihood.





    Peace, bro.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I don't know. Some do, some don't, I guess. Either way, I seem to recall the apostles leaving their ordinary lives to follow Jesus, so if I were to characterise his lifestyle, I would probably say apostle.

    I am not a new testament scholar, so I don't know. A quick googling indicates that he was treasurer, so arguably something vaguely intellectual. He bought a field with the 30 pieces of silver, so maybe farmer? They also mention Judas as a thief, unclear if it is as occupation.

    I think it could be perfectly productive if you would write what you mean. I reckon the answer from Wyrd of Gawd also indicates that the bottle neck in this discussion is what you choose to provide.
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't Judas one of Jesus's brothers or nephew (Simon, Jesus's brother was Judas's daddy)

    Matthew 13:55 (CEV) = *55 Isn’t he the son of the carpenter? Isn’t Mary his mother, and aren’t James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas his brothers?*

    John 12:4 (NKJV) = *4 But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, who would betray Him, said,*
     
  10. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Couldn't say. Given the number of people with similar names, I wouldn't say that's conclusive, but I have no argument to rule it out. Does that have an impact on the argument?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It is just one of those things that might cause you to go *hum*.
     
  12. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Is it? Why? What significance do we draw from that? The story is already played up as a severe betrayal, would the family relationship make a difference? And if it does, wouldn't the Bible pay more attention to it?

    I'm overplaying my hand here a bit, I don't find it unacceptable to think that some things just make you go hum, that's just the only thing I've been given to work with here.

    In my experience, arguments like "it makes you go hum" tends to be arguments that are not spelled out because they're not strong enough to withstand actual scrutiny, they just play to the emotions.

    But then I wish to restate that this isn't really a good criticism on my part, I just had nothing better to respond with.
     
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    If you follow the biblical themes it would make sense for Jesus and Judas to have been related, either as brothers or uncle and nephew. In other biblical stories the Judas character is depicted as a national hero.
     
  14. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Yes, but then what?

    What conclusion should we draw from thinking that they were brothers? What conclusion should we draw from the fact that it nonetheless isn't presented as a tale of brothers? Does the Bible conform to this biblical theme because there is something fundamental about being brothers, or does it do so because people tend to add brotherhood to narratives for dramatic effect?

    In short, this feels like half an argument.
     
  15. Raffishragabash

    Raffishragabash Newly Registered

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    How would you philosophize that lifestyle you characterized, with respect to scripture within John 12:4-6?
     
  16. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Well, Jesus' apostles are some of the most iconic apostles, so if anything, I'd calibrate my understanding of what an apostle is.

    Look, why don't you just write out the argument you're trying to make? I don't see that leading me through a bunch of steps where I don't know where I'm going is going to be very helpful.
     
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