Julian Assange extradition order issued by London

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by vis, Apr 20, 2022.

  1. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When it comes to the war against Fascists, Communists and Islamists - there are always those in the West
    who will deny, excuse or openly support these empires. Lenin called them 'useful idiots.' Idiots in that what
    they had in the West the Soviets could only dream of having - yet they would sell out their nations whilst
    happily living in them. Even Snowden wants to return to the USA. Why ?????
     
  2. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I would not like to live under Stalin. But who told you that USSR was a Marxist state?
     
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  3. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    Who told you that Snowden wants to come back to the US? If he wanted, he would come. Do not make only conspiracy theories that cruel Russians do not allow him to leave.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  4. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Soviet Union was the closest thing to Marxist state.
    In any case, we tended to not call them Marxists, or Leninists or Bolsheviks.
    We called them Communists.
     
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  5. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was in the news - Snowdon wanting to go back to the USA.
    And can you blame him? Living in Russia after living in the wicked West?
     
  6. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    USSR has nothing to do with marxism, if you read Karl Marx. The declaration of being a communist country does not mean that there is communism in the country. It is like the US-it declares to be a democratic country, but in reality -it is not.
     
  7. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Well, I disagree.
     
  8. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    Aha, where all these news come from? From your secret agents? None knows even where exactly currently is Snowden...
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So... you hear some news from Putin's Russia and you hear some news from European or American outlets.
    Which is more likely to be true?
     
  10. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Democracy is when the government has to tolerate your point of view, and even
    accept you can put them out of office.
    Thus, America is a democracy and Russia is not.
     
  11. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A hard, HARD truth about Democracy in the US and its gaggle of butt-kissers. :angered: There are a few who have seen the truth and are putting on the brakes. One of them is a Slovak parliament member by the name of Ľuboš Blaha. That man is fearless and he hits hard. :boxing:
     
  12. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe in any outlets. The fact is that he is somewhere in Russia and what he wants or does not want knows only himself and not any media outlets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  13. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    His kindergarten teachers, no doubt.
     
  14. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You disagree, huh? Can you back that up with some motivating examples of why you disagree or is all you've got,"I disagree"?
     
  15. vis

    vis Well-Known Member

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    Looks like America does not tolerate the point of view of Assange. So-no democracy there. In Russia -too, here I agree with you.
     
  16. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is non responsive, to my quote. You posted:

    Giftedone said: ↑
    Take out all the stops to go after free speech this Biden Clown show.


    To which I replied:

    DEFinning said: ↑
    Aren't most, if not all, of the charges, years old, at this point? I mean, to even request extradition, don't there have to be actual charges, officially filed?


    The point of my question, if it eluded you, is that there seemed to be no basis for your singling out the Biden Administration, for a process that was begun, and continued to be pursued, under former Administrations. Do you think you could respond to that idea?

     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The thing that's frustrating to me is, even after all the accusations are made publicly available from court transcripts, it will still (most likely) be far too complicated for most people to understand how exactly the actual specific allegations relate to the criminal charges. The news media probably will not even get into the details of how exactly the allegations relate to the criminal charges. That has been a clear pattern in the past with complicated legal cases like this.

    In addition to that, it's also very likely that any court transcripts could be heavily redacted, supposedly in the interests of "national security". So there is a small possibility it might not even be possible to determine if the jury was actually shown evidence that would have justified the charges.

    The problem is there's just a huge lack of transparency here. We do not know exactly why they are arresting him, and even after the trial we likely still won't really know. (Hard as that is for most people to imagine) Prosecutors very often don't just plainly state the logical reason for the charges. In complicated cases like this, they just throw a bunch of "evidence" facts and a bunch of criminal charges, use emotion to paint the defendant as reckless and having done something wrong (even if that wrong thing is not actually specifically illegal) and then just expect the jury to interpret some of the evidence as constituting a technical violation of at least one of the laws. The prosecutor will likely stretch the meaning of words to try to get the laws to apply to something it is not clear it was meant to apply to.

    Very likely there would never be a trial and they will just try to push him into a plea bargain, whether he's actually guilty or not.

    (A lot of people are to naive too understand how they can do that, and very ignorantly assume there is no reason to plead guilty if there is a high chance that person would be found innocent in a trial)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think that will even be necessary. The legal process is so unfair a prosecutor could easily push for him to be sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even if he should not be.

    A jury and the judge, despite what people think, are very often not enough to put the brakes on an unethical prosecutor. Because the laws are inherently unfair in many situations, and judges can often be apathetic and not truly scrutinize the case, and let themselves just be convinced by the prosecutor's summary of the case and perspective. (Imagine you were trying to understand some complicated situation to make an important decision and you only had 5 minutes to hear someone else explain it to you) Prosecutors are experts at weaving together facts to make a case, even if the way they do it actually isn't fully logical.

    In this case the defendant is near a mental health breakdown (which is understandable given everything that's happened to him) so that likely will not help his case. I don't think he would be even physically/mentally capable of defending himself at this point. He better get a very good lawyer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The prosecutor will likely try to lead the judge and jury to believe that was and should be illegal.

    Among various other strategies of attack.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everything that has happened so far is "legal". It just illustrates how unfair the laws can be, in some situations.

    So Assange has been in a virtual prison for 7 years, trapped in a room in an embassy fearing for what will could likely happen to him if he stepped outside, and then on top of that has been held for another 3 years in detention, being in solitary confinement for much of that time. And it's likely he will have to spend another 2 years in detention in the US, probably under even less pleasant conditions, and all this time still no official reason has been given what any of the evidence is that justifies this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nail on the head .. is exactly what you expect in a pay to play system .. if you Play -- you get paid .. and everybody knows it. Would you be the one to shoot golden egg laying goose ? .. good for you if so .. but you will be in the overwhelming minority .. running against a herd of stampeding bulls . and we know how that turns out ... plenty of examples to gaze upon .. Phil Donahue, Bill Maher , Assange .. to name just a few.
     
  22. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A difficult question. I am not superficial, dazzled by wealth nor am I a consumer in the modern sense of the word. But, I am intimidated by the possibility of poverty and imprisonment so I might shoot the golden goose ... but not the piñata.
     
  23. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but that's the same, over and over, false, bad, and ridiculous excuse from the political extreme left... that the USSR and all the communist regimes on this planet, past and present, have nothing to do with true Marxism and Communism.
    First of all, what is the difference between Marxism, Communism, Leninism, Stalinism, Socialism, Maoism, etc.? In the end there is essentially no difference, all just variants of the same criminal nonsense of ideology, which may only be great in theory, but in practical implementation always ended and will end in oppression and often enough in a bloodbath. And this ideology will never work either, because it is simply against human nature.

    In short: USSR and all the others were / are the true practical examples of that theoretical ideology!

    About the rest that the USA are NOT the best and real democracy I agree with same sort of view on the realities ;-)
     
  24. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    About the topic istself ... Extradition of Assange to the US:

    I don't like Assange as a person at all. For me he is a narcissistic, selfish piece of sh**!

    However, the point here is not that, but it is the point that he published top secret things from the USA via Wikileaks, which the USA was deeply ashamed of and that is why the USA want to have him and prefer to sentence him to death or ban him for life and throw away the key to the cell.
    THIS IS A SHAME and shows the true nature of the US, which is no different on this point from the rogue states they so criticize - no independent judiciary!
    Is Assage a US citizen and/or did he commit this alleged treason from US soil? No! So the US has no right to accuse him!
    If the next American investigative journalist then publishes something similar to Assange's here but about Russia, China or Iran... can he be extradited to these countries and tried for the same reason as Assange is now in the USA, eh?
    It's also comparable to the world of secret services ... if the Russian, Chinese or even the North Korean secret service hacks you in the USA and steals secrets, then of course and understandably you get terribly upset and want the agents in question of the foreign secret services would like to see hanged...
    However, you completely ignore the fact that your US secret services like CIA and NSA do exactly the same thing in these countries and others all the time... but of course that's OK and your hackers are heroes!
    Hardly any of you Americans here would agree with that... and that's called selfish hypocrisy of the USA... as so often!
     
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  25. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you don't know what distinguishes Communist philosophy from Statlinsim then you really know nothing about political philosophy at all.
     

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