Justice Kagan warns parts of East Coast could be 'swallowed by the ocean' in dissent in EPA case

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by sec, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. Irrational thinker

    Irrational thinker Well-Known Member

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    I am not sacrificing my lifestyle so the elites can continue enjoying their lifestyle by selling propaganda to the mass. If the planet dies, they are coming along for the ride.
     
  2. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Like what?

    One, of many solutions I have heard that is the easiest to explain, is to increase the albedo effect of urban cities by adding more trees. They could go even further with requiring all roofs to be painted a light reflective color...but of course that will require a bit more politics to accomplish, even though it could dramatically lower the average temperature of a city that would employ it.
     
  3. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Are you so sure of that?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Even IF they don't go offworld, they have the resources to protect themselves. We don't.
     
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Facts to know:
    1. The oceans have been rising for 20,000 years.
    2. They are currently rising at about 1/2 the 20,000 year rate.
    3. The oceans will not stop rising while the interglacial persists.
    4. 20,000 years ago, at the end of the last glacial advance, there was a MILE of ice over Chicago.
    5. The last glacial advance persisted for a 100,000 years.
    6. You think surviving slowly rising oceans during an interglacial is a challenge, think through what it's going to be like for humans during the next 100,000 year period of glacial advances, which will be accompanied by lower ocean levels.
     
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  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Personally my carbon sequestration strategy is based on native grasses (and increased woody vegetation) primarily, but also on agronomic practices like cover crops, faster crop rotation cycles with deep rooted alfalfa, and no-till cropping systems.

    Of course all the above sequestration practices also greatly reduce fossil fuel inputs as well. And you are right albedo can be a big factor. Both cover crops and no till cropping increase albedo significantly.

    On the global scale there are many more options. Mangroves must be rehabilitated worldwide to protect shore lines, sequester carbon, and increase inland rainfall to support carbon sequestration further inland. Grasslands and silvopasture systems could be much more efficient and long term sequestration methods than forests alone (as California is finding out). Carbon sequestered in soils below native grasses is safe from release by fire whereas forest systems release far more stored carbon in fire scenarios. Savanna or silvopasture systems provide safe carbon storage of native grass while adding rain producing trees to the equation.

    Large tracts of land abandoned to desertification in many areas can be cheaply seeded to deep rooted legumes like Alfala. This increases albedo, holds remaining topsoil, increases water infiltration and holding capacity, pulls micronutrients from deep soil layers to topsoil level, sequesters large volumes of carbon in deep soil, and fixes nitrogen so that rehabilitated land can go back into production with greatly reduced dependence on fossil fuel based nitrogen fertilizer.

    Wind and solar farms can be located strategically to increase rainfall and mitigate storm damage in areas of need. There is research showing wind and solar farms in the Sahara could reclaim at least parts of the desert back to semi arid ecosystems. But painting roofs is an easier sell than projects like this! :)

    Hemp is one of the best carbon sequestration tools we possess. It’s not utilized in this capacity hardly at all.

    I could go on and on but would bore you! Making changes in cities is important but large scale effects would only come from vegetation in rural and remote areas. The biggest effect cities could have would be in changing their diets so silvopasture systems could replace conventional cropping systems and Mangroves displaced by shrimp farms could be rehabilitated for example.
     
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  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your informative post. Would you mind elaborating on this:

    "Wind and solar farms can be located strategically to increase rainfall and mitigate storm damage in areas of need. There is research showing wind and solar farms in the Sahara could reclaim at least parts of the desert back to semi arid ecosystems."
     
  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Here is an article that is a good summary of the research.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180906141611.htm

    As far as I know there is no formal research on the following, but it would be expected vertical mixing and cooling/humidifying of thermal layers in the Sahara and Sahel would disrupt the pattern of the African Easterly Jet that causes almost all of the hurricanes the US experiences in the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and Eastern Pacific to form around Cape Verde off the coast of West Africa.

    Cooling the winds coming off the Sahara would decrease the thermal gradient between the African Easterly Jet and the cooler, wetter conditions of the African West Coast, thus reducing the formation of disturbances leading to US hurricanes.

    There are a lot of amazing things we could do if solutions were the goal. But you aren’t even going to hear about stuff like the above because simple or complex solutions are not the goal. Most do not want the problem to go away. It’s far too valuable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, was going to address the benefits of offshore wind farms as well in reducing local hurricane wind speeds and inland flooding from rain.

    http://www1.udel.edu/udaily/2014/feb/hurricanes-wind-turbines-022614.html

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181017141024.htm
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting, thank you. This though, I wonder if the guy down wind from you would feel like you're stealing their rain?

    "The paper demonstrates a clear decrease in precipitation for onshore locations that are downstream of a wind farm and an increase in precipitation in offshore areas that are upstream or within the wind farms themselves."

    Seems more a case of redistributing what's there rather than increasing rain overall.

    And, of course, taking nothing away from the wind dissipation which looks like a pure win.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  10. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So now dissent-ion outside the constitution is a problem, but was OK on abortion ......ok....got it !
     
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Again, thank you.

    "Cooling the winds coming off the Sahara would decrease the thermal gradient between the African Easterly Jet and the cooler, wetter conditions of the African West Coast, thus reducing the formation of disturbances leading to US hurricanes."
     
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  12. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    umm

    the killing of babies was sent back to the states in what is hopefully the first of many things that need to revert back to the states. The fed govt has over-reached for decades.

    The SCOTUS was correct in that ruling and the justices need to rule based upon the Constitution, not Democrat mumbo jumbo
     
  13. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Only one of those rockets is capable of actually getting anything "offworld" for anything more than a couple of minutes of weightlessness as it falls back to Earth.
     
  14. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Justice Kagan warns parts of East Coast could be 'swallowed by the ocean' in dissent in EPA case

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  15. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    She might want to tell Obama as his $12 million dollar mansion right on the coast of Martha's Vineyard that he purchased just at the end of his term is about to be gone...
    upload_2022-7-6_13-56-43.jpeg

    And she probably should tell Biden's Climate Zar, John Kerry his $12 million dollar property (also in Martha's Vineyard) is also going under the ocean..
    upload_2022-7-6_13-59-7.jpeg

    It's weird how all these rich elites who screaming that the oceans are going swallow up shores are buying a bunch of coastal mansions. Seems like a poor investment to me, knowing that it's all going to be gone and all.
     
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  16. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree in the case of offshore wind generators it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    It would be interesting to know how far inland the effect reaches.
     
  17. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, its just that you agree with it, so therefore it was right. To you one is justice and the other is "democracy", when thats NOT what the SC is to adjudicate to ;)
     
  18. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    then we agree, except it is you who is crying foul but unfounded in your whine.
     
  19. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Did you misunderstand the statement? Did you think that he meant entire nations would be wiped off the planet by 2000?

    Island nations are experiencing dramatic changes. A small cay that saw a smaller footprint at high tide 30 years ago is now under water at high tide.
     
  20. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying global warming trends were reversed? The prediction is clear as can be.
     
  21. Vote4Future

    Vote4Future Well-Known Member

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    Why do we care about a Justice of the Supreme Court weighing in on climate issues, if there are climate issues? Are we really that stupid as a nation? I guess some are.
     
  22. Vote4Future

    Vote4Future Well-Known Member

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    Since you want to speak ignorance, we would be better off with California falling into the ocean as well as New York City and Lake Michigan swallowing Chicago. This nation would be so much better off.

    Just trying to match the ignorance of liberal speak. How did I do?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  23. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    No schit?!

    And you think they're dumping billions into these rockets just for a couple of minutes of weightlessness?

    You know, ever heard the phrase, it is sometimes best to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak (or in this case type) and remove all doubt?
     
  24. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think most people realize how impractical off world colonisation is. The real issue with Mars is not the atmosphere, but the lack of gravity.

    We simply don't have anything like the technology required to live under these conditions for extended periods or to change the mass of the planet.

    Weirdly enough we'd have a better chance at Venus, despite it having a sulphuric acid atmosphere at 95 Bar pressure. At least it has 0.9g of gravity.

    In reality if there was a global armegeddon the rich would move underground, probably into old nuclear bunkers. This is vastly more cost effective, completely achievable with current technology, and no matter what we do or what the composition of the atmosphere becomes, we'll still have 1g of gravity and 1atm of atmospheric pressure.

    It's very sensational, the image of the rich fleeing the planet, but it's pure pseudo-science until we drastically increase our power and technology by many orders of magnitude.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  25. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Well, given that I just sold my condo on the beach in southern Florida in part because the neighborhood was flooding every King Tide, and
    and a number of South Florida and Florida key neighborhoods are flooding more each year - I guess all she has to do is be able to read ... I know
    that's a tough one to accept for the MAGA crowd, but it is what it is.
     
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