Lasers and Gun Control

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by QLB, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    It's no secret that I'm a convert to the use of lasers in self defense handguns. However, it's only a matter of time till the anti-gunners go after them. After all, they make the weapons more deadly. Look for this. Remember the lunacy surrounding the search for "safer" ammunition and the hoopla over the Black Talon's or the Ring of Fire handguns?
    For most of us the issue is whether to use one or not. IMHO they are the wave of the future and make the small concealed carry firearms more effective. The manual of arms for lasers is still being written.
    The big question is where do you sight in the laser? Should it be above the front sight, just on top of the front sight or along the bore axis. I have my views and why. What are yours.
     
  2. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As an instructor of new shooters I can write volumes on the advantage of lasers. I will wait to discuss that as the topic comes up. Anti-gunners should have no argument against the use of a laser equipped firearms as they make any shooter far more accurate thus reducing the chance of rounds going astray. It is similar to my discussions with anti's regarding the use of hollow point ammunition which reduces the chance of over penetration through walls and the reduction of ricochets.
     
  3. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm....
    I think I would sight it in where the bullets hit at 10-15 yards myself..

    You do know that if you dope your laser to agree with your sites at 10 yards, your laser will be low at 5 yards and high at 15 according to the sites..
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  4. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    Mount the laser where it is the most out of your way. Adjust it to 10-15 yards or whatever distance you think you will need it.

    A laser allows me to carry a smaller gun with minimal sights. If lasers were illegal, I'd carry a bigger gun with better sights. Currently, my LCP is my only gun with a laser.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  5. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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  6. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    I personally am not a fan of lasers on defensive handguns...They are a great training aid, but in a home invasion, especially at night, why do I want a light that announces my presence and location. I prefer the element of surprise. We currently have a walk-in safe room, with power control, so I shut off all the lights except emergency...My family in the safe, anyone appearing to approach is dead. And before you ask, I have two large German Shepherds that will need to be dealt with, so my family does have time to get to the safe.
     
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  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    If the safe room is the location of controls for electricity to the house, why not install electronic devices throughout the house, which can be activated from the safe room, that will emit various degrees of unpleasant noise at levels that are capable of causing pain and physical damage to those without hearing protection?
     
  8. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    And some powerful strobes to temporarily blind them.
     
  9. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also HIGHLY advise an instant-on laser for any handgun - and to train to the laser. 30 feet is a good sight-in range. Crimson trace is excellent as it is nearly exactly in line with the barrel. The variance in panic shooting is inconsequential. MOST people do NOT practice and even when they do that practice has NO relevancy to reactive spontaneous panic shooting.

    Most people couldn't hit a cow charging at them with a handgun. The bullet is going to go close enough to where the laser dot is. HOWEVER, training to a laser is different than training to sights.

    Without a laser, for impulse shooting a longer barrel is a necessity. With a laser at close quarter the barrel length is irrelevant provided it is a high enough caliber. .380 or 38sp is the minimum in my opinion.
     
  10. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Such as the Crimson Trace is only on when you want it on. I agree not to have continuously on lasers.

    As laser can be also used as a deterrent. Hear a noise outside at night you feel you must investigate? Step outside and run the laser off the pistol or revolver slowly around the area. That would convince potential trouble to pick some other location 99% of the time.

    I know of an instance where a woman putting a laser dot on one of two aggressive men lead to the other one shouting to the one with the dot on him: "Look at your chest! Do what she said!!!" They both wisely believed she really did mean it when she shouted "Do what I said or you both die!" The red dot was convincing.

    If you have two German Shepherds you will not face a home invasion unless it known you either have a lot of drugs or a lot of money in the house. Crime is about ease and opportunity, and 2 German Shepherds are not easy. There is a company that even has a product with sensors also rigged to the doorbell that activates the sound of a huge dog furiously barking. That is enough to scare burglars away.

    A prosecutor I know of nearly 30 years experience told me that while he had prosecuted hundreds of rape cases, he has NEVER had a stranger rape case where the woman had a dog with her - any size dog.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  11. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For personal carry and home defense, I recommend selecting a handgun that Crimson Trace makes a grip for. It is closest to the actual barrel so will be most accurate for distance, is instant on by gripping it (no need to ever turn it off) and is only one if you want it on by how hard you grip it.
     
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  12. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have more than 1 LCP, all with Crimson Trace grips. So small and lightweight you can just slip it in a pocket.
     
  13. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I had a laser on my LCP, but I sent my slide to a service which dovetailed it ($100 if I remember) and I put high vis night sites on it in addition to the laser. I have both on most of my carry guns, CT laser guards, where I can use or not use the laser. Regardless of using the laser, I always bring the gun to sight the same way, It's advantage to me is in low light, where standard sights difficult for my old eyes to pick up quickly and night sights don't have the contrast.
    One gun I almost always have in my pocket is a NAA pug with a laser. It's a mouse gun, but the laser enables a quicker shot on the mouse...

    I would suggest any sighting method should fit likely senarios.
    Depending on my gun (all with night sights), I sight the laser for POI at 10-15 yd as Texan suggests, but know my POI offset from any distance 0 on out. 25yrds or more is an unlikely situation, but + - a couple inches is still good and I would more likely be using my sights anyway and know my holds for most of my pistols at most combat ranges. When I shoot, I always practice at multiple ranges to keep my POA/POI burned into my head for my EDC's.
    I don't have one on my AR, but my RedDot has similar offset issues, even more exagerated as anyone testing various sighting methods would understand (a topic in itself).
     
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  14. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Here's method one taken from an article I wrote.
    The first method is to sight the laser where it points to the top of the front sight. It’s the modus most commonly used and if you have a factory-installed sight this is the one you’ll likely find. It works, especially if you use the 6 0’clock hold for your sight picture. However, if your presentation of the pistol is less than optimal and you cant the weapon you won’t see the laser. In terms of training and shooting do you orient toward the laser or the front sight? I call it the searching for the laser beam conundrum.
    Again, this is the one that most people will get and many will recommend. It works, BUT there are lot of buts. Just remember we're talking about handguns here, where the reality is that the majority of your threat will be 15 feet or less and the encounter less than 5 seconds in most/many scenarios.
     
  15. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Why? In a home invasion and you're going to a safe room what difference will it make? He's coming to you. If it's dark it's really to your advantage and if it's light he will know where you are shortly. Besides the best place to defend a room is from the side and not head on. I'm not sure about your point.
     
  16. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    My solution is different, but achieves the same thing.

    My primary home-defense handgun is a Glock 17, mounted with a Trijicon RMR (Ruggedized Miniature Reflex) and a Surefire X300 light. Thus, I eschew the laser, but get the advantage of an illuminated dot to precisely place shots in the dark under stress.

    If you do have a laser, my solution was to first see if my pistol hits to the iron sights. If it does, then I stand at the longest distance I might feel I would need to fire in my house, and I zero the dot at that distance so that it sits at the exact point in my sight picture where I know the bullet will impact. Doing that gives me a very effective "boresight" of my laser.
     
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  17. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Funny you should mention red dot and holosights, the "other wave of the future." Here's the second method and I'll conclude with the third and why I think it may be the best.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The second method is to sight in below the iron sights. The guru’s who ascribe to this method say it’s best to use the iron sights first and then transition to the laser. In essence, they’re using the laser a backup to the irons or for longer ranges. This takes time and suggests that you really don’t trust your equipment. This is the method where the concept of constant offset comes in. The laser is usually sighted in along the bore axis.
     
  18. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    I don't worry about a home invasion...I live on 15 acres, the two large dogs, and while I am not known as being rich...I do have classic cars and a large gun collection that is insured for $250k. So if someone does go to the trouble I have to believe they mean me and my family harm. I'm not going to give away any advantage that I have.
     
  19. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Just curious as to what advantage you would be giving up?
     
  20. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    Home field advantage, I know my home and the line of sight is better for me with an emergency light in the hall that does not iliuminate into the safe area. Someone walks into that area after getting through my dogs, they are dead, and they will not know I am there until it is too late. And if outgunned, I lock us up in the safe, guaranteed to stop most anything shy of explosives or 50 cal armor piercing.
    Did you know that it costs $1800 for a 6 foot safe door and frame...build your own safe in your home..
     
  21. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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  22. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure that an intruder will know you're there. It doesn't explain how a laser gives you a disadvantage, after all I hope you're not using a handgun in this situation. This is about handguns and handguns fights, quick, close and dirty.
     
  23. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Too many over think the use of a laser.
    1. Best training aid to teach trigger control, especially on a revolver.
    2. You don't use the iron sights when using the laser which allows you to focus on the threat.
    3. Easier to shoot accurately using weak hand.
    4. Allows shooting from behind partial cover.
    5. Red dots appearing on an bad guys chest may help him/her decide if they wish to continue their aggression before a shot is fired.
    6. They have an "off" switch.

    Disadvantages
    1. They need a battery. (Mine are used as a teaching aid and seem to last a very long time. Crimson Trace gives them out free for life.
    2. They need to be synced with the bullets impact. Mine @ 30'
    3. They are not as pretty as wood.
     
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  24. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    For most handgun distances it's not consequential.
     
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  25. jmblt2000

    jmblt2000 Well-Known Member

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    A laser in the dark, is a direct line to where I am. In the dark, they will not know where I am until it is too late...and yes I am using a pistol, better control in distances less than 10 yards.
     

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