Latter Day Saints, The Mormons, my analysis so far!

That's my experience, too.

I worked ground crew for branding calves in a remote section of Eastern Oregon - tossing and hogtying, branding (by fire, not electricity), horning, injections, casteration (with a pocket knife), etc.

There weren't many of us and it was seriously hard work when you consider 600 calves that had been left on the range a couple months too long! So, dawn to night, no coffee or soda and I never heard anthing even remotely like a curse. I'd rate it harder than choker setting, brushing and other logging jobs I had in high school.

There were grade school kids wearing chaps and roping calves, cutting calves from cows, etc.! It was too remote and too small an operation for squeeze chutes and other equipment. It was a great experience with really good people.

 

I want to remind myself of what the two Latter day Saints missionaries asked me to do today for homework through Facetime.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/36?lang=eng
Alma chapter 36

One of the places where there is an ancient prediction of the coming of Messiah is The Book of Enoch and another possible ancient source is The Book of Adam and Eve that was preserved into our time period only in an Ethiopian Coptic dialect.


https://reluctant-messenger.com/eden_1.htm

 

That's probably kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, because they believe their Mormon employees will be more honest, trustworthy, and harder-working than their non-Mormon employees. Which is probably likely to be true.

 

Yes, very nice people can have seriously flawed religious "beliefs". In fact, it seems almost uniformly the case.

 

Yes, but I can't help but believe there must be at least some benefits (including afterlife) if some of the end results are good, even if the core beliefs are mired in something so flawed.

Maybe, even if their beliefs are wrong, their good actions are actually motivated by that part of their beliefs which are true?

 

EXACTLY!!!!!

About two weeks ago it hit me that since Sister H.... and Sister P....... at merely twenty years of age or so had already learned that repentance is something that we can hit new and deeper levels of daily..................... and considering that it took me many, many, many years of prayer and Bible study to learn that fact............ I knew immediately that the Book of Mormon must be pretty good if it produces fifty thousand young people who have already learned such deep and important and challenging truths regarding our walk with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus!

"Disparage no book, for it is also a part of the world." (Rabbi Nachman of Breslov)

That title above is now on a massive Latter day Saint discussion forum by some guy who goes by DennisTate!

 

Been there... done that... got the T-shirt.

I believed very firmly in the terribly flawed Soul Sleep Theory from around 1972 to 1990 or 1991........ and then reading near death experience accounts proved to me that I had terribly misunderstood the scriptures.

 

Got to read this again for my homework......

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/36?lang=eng

 

To discern an evil spirit, extend your hand to greet it. The evil spirit will always try to deceive and extend its hand. Of course, since the evil spirit has never had a physical body, his hand would go through you. You will know then it is an evil spirit. D&C129:1 - 9

 

Seriously cool!

Thank you for this!

I have a tendency to attract Legions by the way that I approach life..... and spirituality........ and religion......... and Modern World Problems?!

Prayer request..... I know that getting into this discussion on that particular forum is dangerous.......... but our circumstances indicated to me that I should at least give it the old flying best shot........!

My first comment is in post #57 .....


Illuminati totally controls orgainzed religion, politics, and the media

 

I truly thank you for your getting involved in this discussion.

Would you be willing to go through this discussion and let me know if you see any statement that I made that indicated a high level of ignorance on my part regarding Latter day Saints?

Please feel absolute freedom to let me know publicly or by personal message.... (which ever one you feel is better). I did make it to the local LDS ward four times in 2019 and I did pray and ask if I was supposed to be re-baptized for the third time....... and this time by LDS elders or missionaries?

The answer that I got back was that I was supposed to assist Latter day Saints to connect with Jews, especially Jews living in Israel. I've been working on that online......





The White Horse President prophecy and saving the USA constitution and dollar.



Here is me attempting to connect Latter day Saints with Jews online:


Moving the remains of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov from the Ukraine to Israel?

 

Due to my researching spirituality for forty eight of my sixty one years I tend to really like the idea of churches coming together in order to give each other media attention that is useful to Jesus and the plans of God for all of our lives. Greater cooperation between Latter day Saints with Evangelical Christians can be win - win - win - win - win - win for all eight billion human residents of this earth, (and also much cattle as was shown to Jonah).

"Greater unity between Latter day Saints and Pentecostals ...." I woke up this morning with another dream in mind from back in 1973 that has me thinking about Latter day Saint missionaries perhaps using some aspects of this dream to launch their careers as audio - video news commentators in rural America and rural Canada.

Pastor David Wilkerson wrote a book entitled "The Vision" that to him was scary indeed but.... there may be a way to turn this around as Latter day Saints and Pentecostals and other Christian churches that have participated in the Alpha Program led by Anglican pastor Dr. Nicky Gumble come together more and more and more over the coming years.

Yes... I am hoping to see LDS missionaries and some members of the local ward invited to the next Alpha program in my area. What I have in mind is a news channel where the bulk of the audio - video journalists are Latter day Saint missionaries who tend to dress up in white shirts and ties to do their interviews and they are covering events that may have a mostly Pentecostal flavour. Here is a link from a Pentecostal pastor that indicates that Jesus... .wants Latter day Saint missionaries to consider a career in audio - video journalism that they fit into beautifully after they have finished their two years of missionary work........... but even using this idea to assist them as they raise their savings that they use to support themselves during their missionary term is also interesting. It is my theory that there is validity in this prediction from a gifted Pentecostal author that can be used as a foundation to set in motion the transformation of Latter day Saint and Pentecostal and Evangelical Christian relations over time:

Edit....

Yes... I am thinking that a station where the audio video journalists are mostly Latter day Saints asking more and more questions to find out what is going on has value and... an Exodus of Americans and Canadians from the cities to rural America and Canada could even become a theme for some of their news segments?!

This basic idea could become reality within days because Latter day Saint audio video journalists could cover the next days events related to:

"Let Us Worship"- Sean Feucht - Sacramento, CA ... but on October 25, 2020 begin his event in Washington, D. C. that could even make history?

 

I have nothing against Mormans and they share many values with Christians but they arent Christian. They are Mormans. They have a completely different belief foundation.

 

Thank you for this interesting reply that I vehemently disagree with....

How do you personally react to what I wrote this morning?

I am guessing that you think that my basic concept is dangerous?



......... "Due to my researching spirituality for forty eight of my sixty one years I tend to really like the idea of churches coming together in order to give each other media attention that is useful to Jesus and the plans of God for all of our lives. Greater cooperation between Latter day Saints with Evangelical Christians can be win - win - win - win - win - win for all eight billion human residents of this earth, (and also much cattle as was shown to Jonah).


"Greater unity between Latter day Saints and Pentecostals ...." I woke up this morning with another dream in mind from back in 1973 that has me thinking about Latter day Saint missionaries perhaps using some aspects of this dream to launch their careers as audio - video news commentators in rural America and rural Canada.

Pastor David Wilkerson wrote a book entitled "The Vision" that to him was scary indeed but.... there may be a way to turn this around as Latter day Saints and Pentecostals and other Christian churches that have participated in the Alpha Program led by Anglican pastor Dr. Nicky Gumble come together more and more and more over the coming years. Yes... I am hoping to see LDS missionaries and some members of the local ward invited to the next Alpha program in my area.

What I have in mind is a news channel where the bulk of the audio - video journalists are Latter day Saint missionaries who tend to dress up in white shirts and ties to do their interviews and they are covering events that may have a mostly Pentecostal flavour. Here is a link from a Pentecostal pastor that indicates that Jesus... .wants Latter day Saint missionaries to consider a career in audio - video journalism that they fit into beautifully after they have finished their two years of missionary work........... but even using this idea to assist them as they raise their savings that they use to support themselves during their missionary term is also interesting.

It is my theory that there is validity in this prediction from a gifted Pentecostal author that can be used as a foundation to set in motion the transformation of Latter day Saint and Pentecostal and Evangelical Christian relations over time:
Edit....

Yes... I am thinking that a station where the audio video journalists are mostly Latter day Saints asking more and more questions to find out what is going on has value and... an Exodus of Americans and Canadians from the cities to rural America and Canada could even become a theme for some of their news segments?!

This basic idea could become reality within days because Latter day Saint audio video journalists could cover the next days events related to:

"Let Us Worship"- Sean Feucht - Sacramento, CA ... but on October 25, 2020 begin his event in Washington, D. C. that could even make history?

 

I respect the concept of religious freedom but I dont view all religions as truth. The fundamental Baptists, Amish, Catholics, pentecostals have the same foundation of Jesus Christ as Gods sinless son, sacrificing himself to death pain and suffering in the ultimate act of love to give us the opportunity for eternal life with God. But they are different church families with different priorities and interpretations that lead to the same truth. Its good to have a variety of families to join and merging into one religion is counter productive.

We can respect Judaism and acknowledge that christian and jews share values but you cant merge judaism and Christianity into one. As you shouldn't and cant merge Mormonism and Christianity into one.

 

Children who are being 'good' because they believe Santa Clause is coming are not learning life lessons correctly.

 

When I was eighteen years old I was proselytized for about six months by two Mormon missionaries. I liked the missionaries and I wanted to become a Mormon. However, I did not want to be swept along by a lot of emotion. I wanted to know that the Mormon religion was true. I reasoned that the Mormon religion was unique among religions in that it lends itself to a rational evaluation.

The other religions base their authority on miracles that happened too long ago in the past to be proven or disproved. We cannot know if Jesus rose from the dead after three days. We cannot know if he did not. We would need a coroner's report after the Crucifixion to verify Jesus' death. We would need a doctor's report after the Resurrection to verify that Jesus was alive. We would also need finger prints taken after Jesus' death and after his Resurrection, to verify that it is the same man.

Mohammad claimed that he would go into a trance and the Angel Gabriel would dictate parts of the Koran to him. Again, this cannot be proven or disproved. I have read the Koran in three English translations. I can say that nothing in it would have required super natural means for Mohammad to know about.

The Book of Mormon is either a detailed history of pre Columbian America from abut 600 B.C to about A.D. 421, or it is not. If it is, events described in the Book of Mormon can be verified independently of the Book of Mormon from pre Columbian archaeology and pre Columbian writings by the Indians. It cannot be. Since the Book of Mormon was written much has been learned about what was really happening in the Americas. There is no evidence that any of the events in the Book of Mormon really happened. Pre Columbian architecture shows no evidence of having been inspired by Israelite architecture of the same time.

We know that from 600 B.C. to A.D. 421 the Olmec, the Zapotec, the Maya, and the Teotihuacan civilizations existed in the New World. The Book of Mormon makes no mention of these civilizations. By contrast, the Bible mentions the Egyptian, the Assyrian, the Babylonian, the Persian, and the Roman Empires. We know from sources other than the Bible that these civilizations did exist. In the nineteenth century the writing systems of the Assyrians and the Babylonians was deciphered. There was mention of various Israelite kings, Hezekiah's revolt against Assyria, and the beginning of the Babylonian Captivity.

Biblical archaeology exists.Book of Mormon Archaeology does not exist.

DNA evidence connects the American Indians to people living today in north east Siberia, not to the Jews, as the Book of Mormon would lead us to expect.

The Book of Mormon mentions animals, crops, and inventions that did not enter the New World until Spanish colonization.

Joseph Smith bought an ancient Egyptian manuscript. He claimed that the manuscript was a first person account by Abraham of his travels in Egypt. He claimed to translate this into The Book of Abraham. This became part of The Pearl of Great Price. Mormons consider the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price to be as sacred as the Bible. The manuscript Joseph Smith bought has been found. It has been translated by competent scholars of ancient Egypt. It mentions ancient Egyptian gods and goddesses. There is no mention of Abraham. There is no similarity to Joseph Smith's supposed translation at all.

I learned all of this on my own. I was disappointed by my discoveries. The two Mormon missionaries were shocked. I wonder if they are still Mormons.

 

I actually am NOT promoting that we join into one religion......
I am promoting that we cooperate and discuss the differences in our understanding in a manner that could be win - win - win - win for all concerned......
"A film devoid of conflict is boring" (R. W.)


I am promoting finding something positive in a different branch of spirituality and at least attempting to give them some credit for this one thing that they do or think or teach that
might well be important and valuable.

The Latter day Saints have a fascinating "White Horse President Prophecy" that I believe has off the scale Artistic Value that can be transformed into Diplomatic, Educational, Psychological, and yes... .Economic Value...... now within the context of a seemingly impending 2020 to 2040 Great Depression??????!

For example... Latter day Saints tend to be even more accepting of near death experience accounts that include a Life Revew with Jesus than just about any major denomination of
Christianity ... and so........ IF THE FOLLOWING PROMISE is partly fulfilled in 2020 through near death experience accounts that contain a genuine Life Review with Jesus THEN....
Latter day Saints may well have a head start over any denomination of Christianity that is hesitant to openly take NDE accounts so seriously?????

My theory could be an error... but it makes sense to me at this time.






Latter day Saints and prevention of another 1929....

 

I really like this approach:

 

We Mormons get discussed over issues of our beliefs like almost nobody else is.

Do we read stuff saying Catholics are wrong? If they are right, are Jews also right. If we live by the original teachings were those wrong.

YES, we are Christians. The word Christian means one believes in Jesus Christ and our church is not called mormons, it is called the Church OF Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That name is not some accident. Catholics do not mention Jesus at all in there name for their church. Jews do not mention Christ. Baptists do not mention Jesus as their name.

 

In the case of Utah, very early on they established lots for others churches to use for their buildings. They did not set forth to reject other groups. As to suicide in Utah, there are also many many living there who actually reject the church and my Question is, are those who commit suicide?

 

All of that probably is true and I am a Mormon or rather in the LDS church. We even discuss that ourselves.

What is more important, particular words of the Book of Mormon that could be false or is it that we all need to be learning about GOD and his son Jesus?

So who do we learn of God and Jesus from? Do we learn from a particular group and exclude all others. We Mormons do not exclude others at all.

Missionaries that are boys are teens. Teens will carry dogma with them. And Teens are less likely to question dogma. But can you get the typical man working for a living to go out t talking about the church? When they retire you can. And we also have those who know more than the Teens know.

 

Dennis, the majority of those condemning our church also condemn the belief in GOD.

I inquire of those who do not believe in GOD, when there was this vast area called nothing at all, what do you call the trigger that created the universe completely from nothing?

I call that GOD.

 

At least believing in Santa Claus is better than believing in Government as practiced by Democrats.

If this was what Santa did, we would hate his idea.
Santa would spend tons of energy creating laws we would be obeying using force.
And Santa would show up daily as opposed to one time per year.

 

We are not merging, we are Christians. Name a group that is closer to the Original teachings than we are. Name the group that includes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints into its name as we do? We accept that Jesus lived as a man and was the Son of God and laid onto Earth some very important guidelines and excellent principles and we spend our time learning those and following them.